Dawnof33

Some newer thoughts On trauma/KOs: having a (lower) % chance on being KO'd (but not K'd) based on the main injury types to inflict a status that requires medical attention. Instead of making it happen every time and flood hospitals/medics/clinics with every single brawl, a % chance for more complications seems reasonable to me. If KO'd by bludgeoning (i.e. fists, baseball bat) could cause dislocations, broken bones, head trauma, etc. Realistically, recovery of the last two can take quite a while, but this is GTAW so some considerations are expected to be made for that. My recommendation for a debuff would be to melee damage from lack of coordination/full use of limbs. Treatment would be to set the limb normally, use a cast, or in the case of a head bleed to monitor and control blood pressure (want it lower so that more blood doesn't shift into the brain). In reality, if the bleed were to get worse they'd need to get a drain placed into their brain basically, which would remove excess blood or cerebral-spinal fluid when the pressure gets too high in those spaces, and that adds quite a long time for recovery. Internal bleeding is another thought, could be separate from regular bleeding but much slower. Monitoring to see if it heals or surgery in that case. If KO'd by piercing and slashing (knives/bullets/etc), the main complication that comes to mind is infection. Anyone can stop most external bleeding sources with bandaging, but sepsis can occur when infection sets in. Fever, blood pressure, heart rate, kidney problems, multiple organ dysfunction... the debuff to come to mind would be to a character's health until they get treatment with antibiotics. Recovery normally takes more time than one dose, but again, it's GTAW. The internal bleeding option could be considered as well. Left untreated, these could lead towards death. An acceptable time frame should be allowed for treatment, obviously, and access to treatment options for even when a doctor is not around. Medical bills in the U.S. are also expensive as hell. People go broke from having to get medical attention. Hospitals do eat some of the cost when it comes to undocumented and the uninsured, but they also can pursue the bills via collectors. Opens the doors for some to enter into bill collection services (legality of the methods questionable). Also purchase of medical insurance could be a thing taken out of paychecks. Somehow reduce the costs of medical attention based on the insurance plan? I'm not sure.

Well, the problem is that once they do, it's fair game to them. I think the better solution for them would be to not be idiots about their crimes - like not wearing masks or otherwise leaving your identity revealed? The excuse that someone could have identified them, the police get involved, and it's "snitching" is just misrepresented IMO. The criminals should have the responsibility to not get caught or leave evidence to their identity. Committing a violent crime in a public venue that has video footage, for instance, is just asking to get police involved. They shouldn't be able to claim it's "snitching" when that information, the video, etc, is shared.

This may just need clarification, but it's hard to tell as I've seen the following mentality in use/abuse by many people, supported by admin players, and also contradicted by others when asked about it. I'll paint a scenario. You're walking down the street, minding your own business. A couple of guys jump out and decide to assault and mug you. Then they make a comment about how you'd better not "snitch" while waving a gun and then depart. You, being a regular civilian, call the police and report it. The criminals might get thrown in jail if they're caught for maybe a week or something. They see the calling of the police as "snitching" which warrants a PK and start trying to stalk you, find and shoot you. So while they could end up in jail, your character is, in their eyes, justified to be killed. If this is a mindset that needs clarified in the rules, then no rules really need changed just clarified. The rules DO mention that you can't PK over reporting "petty crimes" to the police. If this is intended and allowed, it seems like it needs to be reconsidered. Lots of criminals just don't seem to be behaving intelligently because they apparently think that this is appropriate, and the consequences each party face are, IMO, completely unbalanced. They try to instigate conflict, then if there is retaliation it becomes instantly PK-able? That seems to contribute to a toxic mentality that just detracts from the fun of role-playing, especially for civilians. And please, FTLOG, keep the responses on-topic and logical, not trollish. You know who you are.

Just some general input with little knowledge how to incorporate in-game: Cold weather does not cause colds. Germs do, from people huddled together inside during the cold especially. High-quality CPR could potentially allow people to be brought back, even beyond 10 minutes. This can be a gray area obviously, the cause of death considered, etc. Coupled with suggestions on re-working the PK system in general, could explain survival with less continuity flaws. Infections could get contracted by untreated injuries and require antibiotics. In an acute critical setting it would be through IVs but people are discharged with PO/pill form when/if it's possible. Drug effects (everyone will protest) should probably cause a long-term, permanent debuff. People develop heart failure and all kinds of complications. Heart failure and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease do not GENERALLY improve, let alone get cured. Some of the scripted effects are also pretty off-base.

Let them come, you should know by now I don't back down from such a challenge. And they can easily just tally the number of people they send to the hospital.

My point wasn't that there could be more problems to report, it was that the number of problems to report should really not change.

Well, maybe you're right about some of that. But it was no misunderstanding on their part. And it was still technically looted. I tried to stay on-scene for their RP and see how it goes. Rules are meant to protect people from potentially bad behavior and actions, so if it's a simple "you can't use a PK'd person's phone for evidence" which is a scenario I'm told doesn't even happen that often, but that certain people are vehemently arguing to keep as a potential means of "creating more RP" while simultaneously proposing people go through steps to prevent it from happening at all... then even if it prevents it from happening once or twice in the future, it will still prevent some potentially major headaches as far as continuity and loss of faith in the community.

I attempted to resolve it in such a manner but was told that they could use anything in the phone to potentially pursue anything per the rules. I noted that I actually COULDN'T give the phone to them, which I attempted to actually do because it was actively ringing and didn't think all of this would come from them simply answering the phone call. Somehow they looted it from the corpse after that. Then they held onto it and no doubt took screenshots of everything over the next hour and a half before finally returning it. Sure, this or that could have been done to prevent it - even the much repeated and completely unrealistic deleting of entire message histories regular for a LEGAL character... but it doesn't change the fact that the nature of PK's shouldn't allow this to even be an issue to begin with.

Other people did not choose to keep risky information on someone ELSE's phone. Their outgoing texts to the character, who is not the John/Jane Doe. When people PK, they don't become an entirely new person - they still are the same one with the same friends, contacts, and most memories. Duplicating those for a John/Jane Doe corpse has the potential to effect a lot more people than JUST the PK'd player. And sure, some people could be smarter... if they are smarter, delete their texts, then that's taking away from your investigative RP though, isn't it? So the concerns you bring up are entirely based around that play-to-win mentality of taking advantage, not an actual concern for creating roleplay.

Well, mine was looted. So idk what to tell you about that.

I don't know why we can't just shift that rule to place the responsibility on the shooters. They already have to abide by the original PK rules of suddenly not knowing who the other party is, it's not a giant stretch. And there would obviously be good and bad roleplay, just as there is already, which can be reported as it already is - like the wounded party should obviously have an aversion to returning to the place of their shooting, especially if it's a certain turf or neighborhood.

You keep making assumptions like how it's for "personal convenience" or sacrificing roleplay. You know what would create roleplay? A nuclear bomb going off in the city. We could all roleplay the ramifications of that... it doesn't mean that it should happen or is good for long-term story. The phone would not, again, phase out of existence. It is simply not THAT phone because that person's phone is still in their possession somewhere else. I've said this before and you've ignored it. I'm all for providing evidence that could be related to the immediate crime. As far as protection - they already HAVE that protection. By being PKed, they can't be pursued for anything. Other people, however, did not have a say in whether or not those texts were available or not on the phone of this John/Jane Doe. Trying to utilize the loophole by a "ha, shoulda deleted ur texts" doesn't make it good roleplay. It only confuses things further if people are allowed to know very private information and the other party can't do anything about it - like how do you know what I ONLY told my friend, who is still alive? Because a John/Jane Doe died? Oh, I can't even ask my friend about it because they're already protected from any ramifications due to their PK.

If it was dead on arrival, I find it hard to believe you'd be wasting so much time trying to argue against it, or making a comment like "I can't wait for this to become a rule so I can" try to exploit it, basically. You keep trying to reference it as an OOC rule influencing IC but blatantly ignore how using information that should not be available under the circumstances is OOC. There's a big difference between RPing what is realistic and makes sense versus trying to get some advantage through what doesn't just because the rules allow it. It makes no sense for a PK, which only erases involvement in the more recent issues leading up to it, to provide a bunch of evidence that could be months old. It just doesn't. A CK'd phone, sure. And if we all aren't deleting texts because we're worried about this scenario, then your investigators might have some good shit to investigate when that happens. You mention using an IC solution a lot: if one of your guys had gotten PK'd and their phone stolen without having deleted those messages... what would your IC solution be? You can't even mention that your guy didn't delete texts, let alone punish them for leaking information. I'm sure the answer will be something judgmental like "we don't do shit tier RP" but the point remains. I simply do not believe that you delete your texts every day IRL.

Well, you mentioned it like you'd be getting shot right when police are arresting you. Dying in an open firefight is something different. To your other comments, the suggestion does not appear to be dead in the water with several people agreeing. And the Doe's phone still doesn't explain how other people suddenly have texted this Doe instead of your character. How your character can still exist and be associated with their former friends, colleagues, etc but somehow NOT be the same person that they've been texting. A Doe that they dunno. And once again, I am not and was not an illegal faction member. There's no reason to be shady and delete text message histories. These comments have been a little contradictory - telling us to delete texts to prevent there being evidence is counter-intuitive when you seem to want to have evidence to be present for investigators. Instead it sounds more like a "gotcha!" for someone not knowing, which is why I had mentioned the mindset of play-to-win.

Alright, a charged topic I see. In my limited experience the PK rules DO seem confusing. But I wouldn’t want all K’s to be CK’s either or the server would end up likely with constantly new characters and few surviving long. One of my first thoughts was: why don’t they RP being wounded and shipped to the hospital with some limited form of amnesia? If a PK turned into a CK, say they died in surgery or something… or even a CK to get nulled to a PK, like… there was some really good CPR en route, some miscommunication about the patient status… To me that would create more RP for the medical field, maintain continuity more smoothly, and unless I’m missing something the traumatic amnesia would help avoid some of the fallback type issues. It’s not perfect either, but just food for thought.