Robbery rule.

[mj2002]

1 hour ago, Ski said:

Well then if  what you're saying is correct, why are there current reports up of people robbing on bmxes and using other vehicles where I only just noticed hence why I made this that vehicles can't be allowed no more in robbery's saying that they didn't know, clearly people are confused misleaded by the rules inplace for the robbery rules.. or they wouldn't be reported for performing the acts.. some was told "you can't use vehicles no more, but bmxes are fine" ???

 

I'm all for clarifying the rules if they are unclear. However, people not knowing what the rules are can just go ahead and read them. These changes were communicated clearly at the time, and they can be found in the server rules which everyone is obligated to read.

 

1 hour ago, Dynamko said:

That’s the problem, if we gonna need admins to approve every illegal thing we wanna do, waiting time is gonna be longer and longer. Why we don’t let for example official factions rob while using a vehicle. The amount of work to even become an official faction is enough to bring them some priviliges

 

But admins aren't needed to approve every illegal thing!

 

There was a significant problem that occurred after IFM decided that 'in broad daylight' was no longer a consideration that players needed to make when performing illegal acts in public, such as robberies. This resulted in an increase in robberies to the extent where you could measure what the current robbery meta was. We can track BF400 sales before and after the rule change, which clearly demonstrated that barely anyone was using these because it was 'realistic to do so', but they were mainly used because they were relatively fast and relatively cheap, an ideal vehicle to perform robberies with. This problem was eventually, after quite a while I might add, addressed by an early iteration of the current robbery rules. This resolved 'most' of the problems with the extreme amount of robberies that had happened at the time. This is what I can see from my experience, your mileage may vary.

 

That doesn't mean admins have to approve every illegal thing that we can do. The rules on this are about robberies, not about 'every illegal thing'. Again, if you can come up with a solution to the aforementioned problem that is better than the rules set we currently have, then lets hear it!

[Peak.]

18 minutes ago, nateX said:

Yes, but putting limitations and obstacles in the way of something so minor is a horrible standard to set. We already have to ask for permission and fill out apps for a million things, why add on to that? Especially something basic like a robbery. I don't see a single reason why you should have to ask some random dude to spectate you so that you can use your vehicle in a robbery. Where is the logic in that?

What's minor to you, isn't minor to another portion of the community. 

It's about balancing what is essentially a video game, where we're all here to enjoy and have fun. 

 

[Martyn]

I'm pretty sure if you're in an official faction (possibly even unoffficial too) you can apply for a scheme of sorts where you can explain in thorough detail what your plan, development and story is and receive special permission to use vehicles in robberies without the need to wait IG for a /report. This still ensures the robberies are done through verified, approved individuals who showcase better roleplay than the average seal team 6 robbery team. There are a couple of people in this thread who are spreading a false and unfair narrative, yes it is very strange you're unable to use vehicles in robberies whenever you want. Quite unrealistic indeed, the same way there are many unrealistic rules in place on the server that prevent people from doing things that happen frequently in real life. This is to sustain a healthy environment on the server for all players. We don't allow robberies using vehicles so that people aren't continuously robbed. The same way we don't allow mass shooters to be on the server even though they're rather frequent in real life. The same way we balanced CCW's by involving unconstitutional requirements to get one because there was a problem with vigilantes. All extremely unrealistic rules that make us stray further from that hardcore realism you'd love to have. But unfortunately rules we need because people can't and will never be able to behave. 

[Ski]

5 minutes ago, Peak. said:

What's minor to you, isn't minor to another portion of the community. 

It's about balancing what is essentially a video game, where we're all here to enjoy and have fun. 

 

 

Here to enjoy a viceo game, exactly and that video game being a Grand Theft Auto roleplay server, where you have criminal RPers and gangs / organizations.. no matter  what way you look at it criminal roleplayers have been told "No this is not happening" rather than setting rules that make it somewhat realistic and properly roleplayed.. with non criminal RPers, as I said above, if gangs could target other gangs, maybe the issue with regular civilians being hit, wouldn't be such a issue, however I have noticed once a criminal gang targets another criminal gang, they're sometimes forced to cut interactions, because of In character things... Hitting other criminals is way more profitiable than hitting regular civilians but.... again the cut ties and conflict gets cut so what do the criminal result to doing? They rob non criminal gang members / rpers.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Ski

[nateX]

8 minutes ago, Peak. said:

What's minor to you, isn't minor to another portion of the community. 

It's about balancing what is essentially a video game, where we're all here to enjoy and have fun. 

And how exactly is making people ask for approval to use a vehicle, something that is used in almost all crimes world-wide, balanced in your opinion? This only applies to one portion of the community. If criminal can't use vehicles to catch the victim by surprise or escape, maybe we should implement a rule that the victim can only run and isn't allowed to use their PF and CCWs? Will that be balanced? You are essentially setting a bad precedent for the future by implementing a bunch of seemingly small changes and in reality has a major impact on someone's flow of RP.

 

Since we're all here to enjoy and have fun, why should one portion of the community have to wait 30 minutes to an hour for an admin to supervise a robbery? To me it just sounds like a lazy way to moderate criminal roleplay.

Edited April 5, 2023 by nateX

[Peak.]

6 minutes ago, Ski said:

 

Here to enjoy a viceo game, exactly and that video game being a Grand Theft Auto roleplay server, where you have criminal RPers and gangs / organizations.. no matter  what way you look at it criminal roleplayers have been told "No this is not happening" rather than setting rules that make it somewhat realistic and properly roleplayed.. with non criminal RPers, as I said above, if gangs could target other gangs, maybe the issue with regular civilians being hit, wouldn't be such a issue, however I have noticed once a criminal gang targets another criminal gang, they're sometimes forced to cut interactions, because of In character things... Hitting other criminals is way more profitiable than hitting regular civilians but.... again the cut ties and conflict gets cut so what do the criminal result to doing? They rob non criminal gang members / rpers.

Cool idea, maybe it's something IFM could look into! 

[Tzula]

I'm not entirely sold on this rule because what ended up happening is that this loose rule of allowing car based robberies became the basis of the LC illegal scene and this was extremely troubling and arguably damaged the server severely. Now one can say, "Add limits to it or admin approval," which sounds like a great idea till you remember workload and were back to the drawing board.

[Ski]

1 minute ago, Peak. said:

Cool idea, maybe it's something IFM could look into! 

 

There's a lot of things the criminal RP is just kinda boring RN ICL, there's no changes when it comes to supplies n stuff like this, you always got that 'top gang' being the top, same charactrer whos like 40 odd years old because they don't wanna re-start their RP and pass their gang / fac down to someone to re-make a char n climb back up.. but they'l happily supply all these guns n drugs to lower gangs n then once confronted or hit, they cry in the report section, Idk man spice the server up a lil.. have ppl looking over their shoulder if they pick this RP route.. don't allow cutting ties 24/7 let people suffer with IC consiquences from police raids, police monitoring and messing up a whole organization over wars, that way it's a constant change in a circle.. rather than 3-4 year old offical factions just running everything.. I could go on, but this was mainly about the vehicle robbery's..

[nateX]

1 minute ago, Ski said:

 

There's a lot of things the criminal RP is just kinda boring RN ICL, there's no changes when it comes to supplies n stuff like this, you always got that 'top gang' being the top, same charactrer whos like 40 odd years old because they don't wanna re-start their RP and pass their gang / fac down to someone to re-make a char n climb back up.. but they'l happily supply all these guns n drugs to lower gangs n then once confronted or hit, they cry in the report section, Idk man spice the server up a lil.. have ppl looking over their shoulder if they pick this RP route.. don't allow cutting ties 24/7 let people suffer with IC consiquences from police raids, police monitoring and messing up a whole organization over wars, that way it's a constant change in a circle.. rather than 3-4 year old offical factions just running everything.. I could go on, but this was mainly about the vehicle robbery's..

I agree. Interaction with other factions is key. I wish we saw more passive RP or long-lasting beef on the server instead of brainless shootouts and ''roll up in a black torrence, shoot, drive off'' type of scenarios. I feel like people essentially having to restart beef is damaging the scene instead of helping it. It could all be fixed if people just stopped complaining every time they lose in a scenario but that is harder to achieve than one might think.

[Moonsong]

48 minutes ago, nateX said:

And how exactly is making people ask for approval to use a vehicle, something that is used in almost all crimes world-wide, balanced in your opinion? This only applies to one portion of the community. If criminal can't use vehicles to catch the victim by surprise or escape, maybe we should implement a rule that the victim can only run and isn't allowed to use their PF and CCWs? Will that be balanced? You are essentially setting a bad precedent for the future by implementing a bunch of seemingly small changes and in reality has a major impact on someone's flow of RP.

 

Since we're all here to enjoy and have fun, why should one portion of the community have to wait 30 minutes to an hour for an admin to supervise a robbery? To me it just sounds like a lazy way to moderate criminal roleplay.

 

Trouble is, if you give players an inch, they'll take a mile. That was proven with the bf400, proven when players got round chain robbing rules by having different members of the group doing the robberies and it wasn't isolated, it was rampant. If there wasn't rules about killing after a robbery so victims don't call the cops, everyone would be doing it (I've experienced it), if there wasn't rules about taking victims to the middle of nowhere to mug them, everyone would be doing it. Civilian and illegal roleplayers both need eachother. If we go back to allowing vehicles to be used for robberies without restrictions, civilians will end up being back indoors again and criminal roleplayers will complain about their being nobody outside.

As long as the majority of those performing robberies are going by whatever the current meta is, the server simply isn't ready to be easing restrictions. Instead we should be looking to encourage alternatives, making it easier for criminals to hit well planned targets (picking a house at random because it's expensive isn't really planning), encourage creativity etc.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Moonsong