Punishments should reflect the rules broken and damage inflicted on players.

[Moonsong]

I'm getting really, really tired of seeing players receiving only warnings for inflicting so much disruption on other players roleplay. It's simply not enough; here's an example of what I mean;

This player willingly and maliciously deleted an entire properties mapping, which would've taken the mapper hours and hours and refused to admit they even did anything wrong and what's worse, this wasn't even their first offence but for all this they only receive a warning and money removed from their account. Is that really justifiable to the person who's time and effort was entirely lost?

 

Granted this isn't entirely Wuhtah's fault, I know he works his ass off but it's more due to a culture the community has adopted since I was an admin and has been engrained in admin doctrine ever since. That being that it's easier to be too lenient to avoid issues and staff reports than it is to be too harsh and have to remove a punishment from someone's record. In my opinion, it just isn't working anymore. Whilst yes, there's only so long a troublesome player will get away with goofy shit but you also have to look at it from the perspective of the player who's roleplay or project their behavior has negatively effected. Does the punishment really reflect what this person has done to the reporting party? In this case it's hours worth of mapping, which they may not be able to replicate again. A player like this isn't going to learn from a warming, stern though it may be.

 

In my opinion it's time to reevaluate how and when punishments are handed out, ie they should fairly reflect the damage caused to the reporting party regardless whether someone has a clean record or not. Warnings just don't cut it for such disruptive behavior.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Moonsong

[Halloween]

Finally someone spoke out, this a +1

[kuchera]

I find it interesting that Wuhtah chose to use the words “Griefing a house” which even in Minecraft would get you banned. 

[Triple Seven]

The entire "teaching" comunity is useless. It wasn't needed in 2017/2018, and it's only made the standard on the server worse with the increase in player numbers.

 

If someone intentionally breaks rules like in the example, a ban can only be the answer. First time? Make it a week or something. If a player repeats breaking the same rule or just blatantly collect rulebreaks across the board, make it multiple months and give them one more chance.

 

Make permanent bans actually permanent.

 

(obviously staff will need to do due diligence before dishing it out)

[Wuhtah]

10 minutes ago, Kucheras said:

I find it interesting that Wuhtah chose to use the words “Griefing a house” which even in Minecraft would get you banned. 

 

My partner actually gave me that terminology. There is no strict rules set in place and it did leave a bad taste in my mouth. I did have to follow the guidelines for punishments and that was what it was lead to.

 

I absolutely hated that the mappers time got wasted and all that was given was a warning, but that's all I could have done.

 

Stricter punishment would have been a staff report and honestly, I would have advised them to do so. I was trying not to be biased within this report because I support mappers very much.

 

We don't know if the player will learn or not. The admin record did not reflect it. If he had done it before, sure, they would have copped a permanent ban from me. If they do it again, they'll get one and they know and understand this.

 

It was their first offense with mapping, previous time was nothing to do with it.

 

I'll ask staff management/perhaps even Frezemis if I went too lenient as well, I do appreciate the constructive criticism as that's how I learn for future occurrences.

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Wuhtah

[Moonsong]

Just now, Wuhtah said:

 

My partner actually gave me that terminology. There is no strict rules set in place and it did leave a bad taste in my mouth. I did have to follow the guidelines for punishments and that was what it was lead to.

 

I absolutely hated that the mappers time got wasted and all that was given was a warning, but that's all I could have done.

 

Stricter punishment would have been a staff report and honestly, I would have advised them to do so. I was trying not to be biased within this report because I support mappers very much.

 

We don't know if the player will learn or not. The admin record did not reflect it. If he had done it before, sure, they would have copped a permanent ban from me. If they do it again, they'll get one and they know and understand this.

 

I'll ask staff management/perhaps even Frezemis if I went too lenient as well, I do appreciate the constructive criticism as that's how I learn for future occurrences.

 

 

This is what I mean, it's not entirely your fault but rather how admins are taught to deal with things and that many are averse to actually issuing punishments to avoid staff reports. So I used your report as an example of why this just isn't working anymore, even if you do adjust the punishment it really wouldn't solve the larger problem. I think it's something management need to take a long, hard look at. Glad you responded so constructively though!

[Storm]

Administrative punishments are seen as a joke by everyone because in most cases they are very light in comparison to what the person does, and typically harsh punishments are reserved for (short timeframe) repeat offenders give it a few months and people let it slip again. The attitude of trying to teach over punish is ineffective in a heavy roleplay environment. The entry exam is a gateway to say that yes, this person understands the rules and should be expected to have a good understanding of them, smaller more niche rules may not be as subject to this as the more obvious ones, but the person making it into the server should be in indicator that they already know better.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Storm

[Wuhtah]

1 minute ago, Moonsong said:

 

This is what I mean, it's not entirely your fault but rather how admins are taught to deal with things and that many are averse to actually issuing punishments to avoid staff reports. So I used your report as an example of why this just isn't working anymore, even if you do adjust the punishment it really wouldn't solve the larger problem. I think it's something management need to take a long, hard look at. Glad you responded so constructively though!

 

I understand, usually players groan and moan amongst themselves, so when you guys DO make it public, I appreciate it.

 

It's not that I wanted to avoid a staff report, I tend to encourage people to make them if they were treated unfairly. However, maybe in this case I should have went harsher because it did waste a lot of time for one particular person. But, it was just one person, and I hate saying that - but it's true. Given the history of the reported player, it's never happened before except for an entire different situation that happened to fall under the same rules. 

 

So, would we punish harsher because it wasted the time of one person, or would we punish harsher because it wasted the time of 2-10 different people? It's hard to find a balance here.

 

Again, I know anyone who attempts at mapping truly puts their time and effort into it, and I am NOT saying that their time and effort isn't appreciated or anything like that. But there is a firm boundary that definitely I'll explore with other admins to see how they would have handled.

 

I won't be able to adjust the punishment, but I do thank you for calling it out. It would be nice to have some clarification on something like this. This is the first report where I had to deal with something along these lines, so I definitely will get the information here of how some of the players would have rather seen it handled/other feedback from admins.

[damnbrah]

punishments are too light in general



15 minutes lol this is a joke, bro just gone take a quick shit, fix himself a sandwich and then get back to trolling


+1
 

[Triple Seven]

1 minute ago, Wuhtah said:

[...]

 

The point of enforcement of rules should have to do with the standard the server is aiming for. Instead of enforcement having become more strict with the increase of players, it has become more lenient and people get away with the dumbest behavior. Nothing directed at you though of course, it's an overall problem. This and scripts for pretty much anything have only helped lower the experience that used to be heavy roleplay, but is quickly devolving into a low quality text RP server.