Standing Your Ground w/ the gun draw anims, when is it fair to do it?

[pateuvasiliu]

5 minutes ago, vato1g said:

 

 

This was deemed by the staff team as being "unrealistic" and "unfair for the person robbing me." Would like some opinions.

Yeah I disagree with the Staff decision. The guy had you at gunpoint and missed. That's entirely IC.

He's also robbing you on the most busy street in the city, which makes it double stupid.

Edited November 28, 2021 by pateuvasiliu

[Trupiano]

I mean it's pretty simple. If you want to shoot it out, shoot it out. But don't cry when you die and get CKed. Just like if a criminal tries to shoot it out with cops, they are liable to get CKed. 

 

12 hours ago, liq said:

P.S. This has nothing to do with taking an L and carrying on with your day or with the typical Itsumi Takumi PF/CCW welding folks. It specifically has to do with people who role-play characters who'd have reason(s) to stand their ground and the means to as well, whatever those reasons may be. Not looking for the fairness in role-play crusaders but for whether or not the existence of the gun draw anims play a part in this.

 

The issue is, while I understand where your coming from. The fact remains that everyone personally believes their character has a perfectly good reason to stand their ground. Does the current line in the sand limit characters who actually do? Absolutely, but changing it would just mean for every 5 people who actually have a reason you'll have another 100 who just don't wanna take the L and will shoot it out because losing assets is the same as dying to them.

 

 

[radreaper100]

28 minutes ago, vato1g said:

https://streamable.com/ob3qpp

 

This was deemed by the staff team as being "unrealistic" and "unfair for the person robbing me." Would like some opinions.

 

homie got caught sleepin

[ZaE]

1 minute ago, radreaper100 said:

 

homie got caught sleepin

on GOD

[vato1g]

48 minutes ago, ZaE said:

on GOD

 

49 minutes ago, radreaper100 said:

 

homie got caught sleepin

bro got clippity clapped fair n square, but it's unfair for the robber to have a soft target turn into a hard target??

 

why is a situation being voided when someone attempted to commit an armed robbery and had a realistic response from an off-duty police officer?

 

idk man, but i do believe this thread was encouraged by my ranting on this situation. thx @liqfor posting.

[pateuvasiliu]

1 hour ago, Trupiano said:

I mean it's pretty simple. If you want to shoot it out, shoot it out. But don't cry when you die and get CKed. Just like if a criminal tries to shoot it out with cops, they are liable to get CKed. 

 

 

 

If a criminal doesn't get CKed while robbing someone, a civilian shouldn't be CKed while fighting off the criminal. That's a double standard and an unfair rule that makes criminals apex predators which they really shouldn't be.

You're comparing a criminal getting out a gun in a 1v10 against cops ( and they rarely get CKed for it anyway ) with a civilian getting out a gun in a 1v1. Definitely not the same thing.

Edited November 28, 2021 by pateuvasiliu

[BINGBONGBALONEY]

1 hour ago, vato1g said:

https://streamable.com/ob3qpp

 

This was deemed by the staff team as being "unrealistic" and "unfair for the person robbing me." Would like some opinions.

Honestly can't think of a reason why anything in the video was deemed unrealistic, all I can imagine is staff missed the chat and assumed you pulled up on a random robbery with the intent to play Frank Castle? 🤷‍♂️

[Koko]

I'm torn on this issue. Right now, any robber with even half a brain can make pretty much just any location an appropriate robbery area on the grounds of streets being IC as empty as they are in-game. Just wait on what would be a busy, Downtown apartment complex in a shopping area long enough for it to suddenly be a desolate ghost town, and every little nook and cranny can be an inconspicuous place for a robbery. Then unless this happens outside a player's business with CCTV installed, no evidence can be brought up against the person unless you somehow RP that you memorized their plates in the middle of this situation, which would be probably deemed powergaming.

 

In real life, robbers involved in this kind of behaviour don't tend to last very long. In GTAW, going to the police to tell them how a man you can't describe other than skin and eye color (due to lack of examine for any recognizable details) in a blacked-out car with no plates robbed you at gunpoint is absolutely worthless, and likely dangerous due to the possibility of being straight up executed for "snitching" if caught contacting the police. So people right now often don't even report being robbed because it's absolutely pointless to.

 

Yes, in real life people defend themselves infrequently, that's just statistical fact. But in real life the average person has also witnessed a lot fewer gunfights than the average character in GTAW that RPs anywhere on the outside world, and lives surrounded by the relative safety of busy streets. Any given day if you RP a civilian in any populated neighborhood you're going to witness a firefight. The signs of armed criminal behaviour that criminals display (f.e. a man in a facemask trying to block off a car to then come out with a gun) are an IC learning exercise for people who have suffered this a number of times and learn to recognize a pattern.

 

If someone sees the signs of it about to happen and fights back, I really don't think there's a case for it being unreasonable: they anticipated a threat with deadly force through their experiences with similar encounters in the past and took an active position against it. The same people who will argue against this will often argue that somehow, by default, your average criminal is just inherently better at gunplay and it's not fair to have a civilian step up, even if they're a 15 year old gangbanger with no real training other than whatever practice they got after getting a Glock in a paper bag.

 

In fact, the lack of people around you at any given time and how isolated you are even in a busy metropolis makes the original historical argument for the right to bear arms even more compelling, taken from an in-universe perspective.

 

I'm torn because from an internally consistent point of view there's little to no reason as to why most civilians wouldn't feel safer carrying a gun. But on the other hand we still want to hold onto the idea that Los Santos is somehow a city of relative order where normal people live normal people lives, so the narrative of "civilian RPers" not being able to shoot back seems a necessary one to not just live in a complete dystopia. Robbers seem to be fine with the idea of civilians carrying guns they can rob off of them (#1 item they're looking for usually, other than valuables to pawn), but then there's these great discussions about portrayal whenever this gun that was bought for the purpose of self defense is used for the purpose it was bought for.

 

I don't even carry a gun anymore because honestly I can't be bothered with the stress of being OOCly questioned if I pull it and shoot some attacker down, or lose the firefight and be accused of somehow failing to RP fear by default because my character is perceived as a law-abiding civilian (which they might not necessarily be), whereas it would've been fine if only he had gang ink on his neck. Considering how a CCW is made useless 90% of the time through OOC rulings on fear, I settled for just adding to the pile of boring robbery targets who carry no valuables other than an empty wallet, some cigarettes and a phone most of the time.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Koko

[vato1g]

15 minutes ago, BINGBONGGHOST said:

Honestly can't think of a reason why anything in the video was deemed unrealistic, all I can imagine is staff missed the chat and assumed you pulled up on a random robbery with the intent to play Frank Castle? 🤷‍♂️

unfortunately, that isn't the case. the admin handling had a very strong opinion on the matter. even went as far as to say "now im not going to punish you..."

[Trupiano]

1 hour ago, pateuvasiliu said:

If a criminal doesn't get CKed while robbing someone, a civilian shouldn't be CKed while fighting off the criminal. That's a double standard and an unfair rule that makes criminals apex predators which they really shouldn't be.

 

Lmao no it doesn't. Criminals are committing a crime, they are putting themselves already at immense risk to personal freedom by their actions. How about we stop acting like criminals are some unchecked entity to strengthen this argument when there is literally two factions who entire role is to check them. 

 

1 hour ago, pateuvasiliu said:

You're comparing a criminal getting out a gun in a 1v10 against cops ( and they rarely get CKed for it anyway ) with a civilian getting out a gun in a 1v1. Definitely not the same thing.

 

It's on PD to force those CK's through, if they aren't doing it that's on them. If staffs not allowing it then they are clearly falling back on their word, but that's not the criminals fault. Your right 1v10 with cops is not the same as 1v1 during a robbery, but your willfully ignore the fact that if somebody has a gun pointed to your head in a robbery and you try to John Wick your CCW out to defend yourself, your going to killed. It's NVFL and it warrants a CK. 

 

There are also a dozen other avenues to address this issue IC that people refuse to examine because why actually try to find a solution that fits law abiding citizens when we can just change the server rules to meet force with force. Create a neighborhood watch, pressure the police to increase patrols in your areas, weird how we want to complain about "unrealistic robberies" in places like Rockford but we also don't want to permanently deploy officers there. Pressure your politicians, get certain areas designated as "crime freezones" and create severe IC penalties for getting caught there. 

 

So much shit that could be done and would create so much RP but nope, lets just jump straight to giving everyone a gun. 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Trupiano