Replace the criminal points system

[moD]

Just now, Timzii said:

How does that make any sense?

Official factions are usually official because they've showcased to IFM that they are capable of decent roleplay and the ability to manage the portrayal of it's members. These factions usually don't need to be policed as often compared to groups. If you check group archives, there's a plethora of groups being closed on weekly basis due to poor portrayal and sub-par roleplay. therefor official factions are less likely to abuse the need to be arrested 60 million times compared to groups.

[DasFroggy]

2 hours ago, Bospy said:

the player I robbed doesn't RP PTSD, they don't RP being a victim of a crime

 

With the current crime rate, this is literally impossible to do. I can't roleplay PTSD if my character is being made a victim twice a day.

Edited October 29, 2021 by DasFroggy

[Engelbert]

1 hour ago, DasFroggy said:

 

With the current crime rate, this is literally I possible to do. I can't roleplay PTSD if my character is being made a victim twice a day.

I was robbed in real life few times. I have no ptsd I still walk alone at nights and still choose the forest as shortcut home. But other than that, what you said above. 🙂

Edited October 29, 2021 by Engelbert

[Triple Seven]

It's a vicious cycle. More players, more crime without consequence. Criminals that get caught still get away without really having to roleplay the consequences. If people with imprisoned characters were forced to use that character to serve the time (for petty crime I'd suggest spending the full time in jail, for heinous crime it would have to max out at a percentage that's higher than petty crime in absolute hours), before being allowed to play another character or delete the imprisoned one (except for lifers, where characters that get convicted to life off the streets should spend a minimum number of hours on that character before their other character slots unlock for play again), that would at least have some sense of consequence. If the crime rate is as high as it is, why would any civilian live in LS?

 

No I don't play a criminal, big whoop. You can smell the criminals in LS from a mile off, that goes for all layers of them too. There's no subtlety, barely any attempt at fitting in with civilians and doing things sneakily is made. Criminals have free reign as it is. Once they get caught they currently face the consequence of immediately being convicted to life? So, what? Consequences to their actions. This law is IC, criminals know of it IC if they inform themselves, perhaps it should make them think: "Oh shit, if I do this and I don't plan it properly, this could be the consequence. I better be careful, do I even want to run this risk or can I do this differently?" But no, here we are, because a crime fetish needs a quick fix for some people that don't want to deal with the (in-character mind you) consequences to their actions.

 

Civilians are told to protest law IC, why don't criminals if they think it's unfair?

[Timzii]

14 hours ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

just trust the process. 

I have high doubts of it only become worse than actually improving.

 

14 hours ago, moD said:

Official factions are usually official because they've showcased to IFM that they are capable of decent roleplay and the ability to manage the portrayal of it's members. These factions usually don't need to be policed as often compared to groups. If you check group archives, there's a plethora of groups being closed on weekly basis due to poor portrayal and sub-par roleplay. therefor official factions are less likely to abuse the need to be arrested 60 million times compared to groups.

OK, but how does decent roleplay and portrayal make them immune from in-character criminal points? So, because you're in a scripted faction, which is an OOC thing, you should be immune to criminal points which you gather by committing felonies in-character? How can somebody abuse being arrested, though? It doesn't matter if you're in an official faction or an unofficial group, you still should have same consequences ICly. I've played illegally for 4-5 months and I've done crimes from murder, car thefts and robberies and never got caught. This suggestion as a whole just seems to be done by someone who got unlucky enough and got caught for multiple felonies which stacked up on his name. Just do your crime smarter rather than removing the crime points, it's literally that easy. 85% of crime done probably goes unsolved for ever, so odds are definitely on your side here, not LEO's.

[latenight]

I think the point system is good. I definetely understand also as a criminal roleplayer, It really sets a limit for our characters and since we're roleplaying a criminal and It's just a game after all, we'll eventually get there. HOWEVER, we also need to think about the rest of the community. I think the main reason of the point system is just to prevent some poor RPers to keep on getting in shootouts 7/24, have 20 pages of criminal record with 19 of it is filled with "Murder of a government employee". 

 

My suggestion is:

 

• Increase the final point to get life
• Or Make a mandatory parole system for lifers after 30 days. 
• Or Decrease the point of the crimes other than murder/attempted murder/manslaughter etc.

and we should be good. 

 

I know in real life that even a "career criminal" eventually gets locked up for shitload of time after his 10-15th crime. But yeah, we're trying to have some fun here and It damages the fun part of the criminal roleplay. Because this stritct point system definetely leads people to this logic: I have only good 6-7 felony chances, better play my cards right, get killed in a pursuit or simply "find a way to escape". Meanwhile nobody other than criminal roleplayers have something like this to think about.

 

The prison RP system is already very good, like getting reduced time If you roleplay, having a jail-only character to make the prison more active, the alarm systems and etc. It's the best I've ever seen in my life, however It sucks to know that your criminal career is eventually gonna come to an end no matter. 

 

The server has its well-structured systems, just like real life US. But It could lead to some Kafkaesque bureaucracy loophole If we stick with this system and not let people just have some fun because what they do have difficult consequences in real life.

[Kipps]

1 hour ago, Triple Seven said:

It's a vicious cycle. More players, more crime without consequence. Criminals that get caught still get away without really having to roleplay the consequences. If people with imprisoned characters were forced to use that character to serve the time (for petty crime I'd suggest spending the full time in jail, for heinous crime it would have to max out at a percentage that's higher than petty crime in absolute hours), before being allowed to play another character or delete the imprisoned one (except for lifers, where characters that get convicted to life off the streets should spend a minimum number of hours on that character before their other character slots unlock for play again), that would at least have some sense of consequence. If the crime rate is as high as it is, why would any civilian live in LS?

 

No I don't play a criminal, big whoop. You can smell the criminals in LS from a mile off, that goes for all layers of them too. There's no subtlety, barely any attempt at fitting in with civilians and doing things sneakily is made. Criminals have free reign as it is. Once they get caught they currently face the consequence of immediately being convicted to life? So, what? Consequences to their actions. This law is IC, criminals know of it IC if they inform themselves, perhaps it should make them think: "Oh shit, if I do this and I don't plan it properly, this could be the consequence. I better be careful, do I even want to run this risk or can I do this differently?" But no, here we are, because a crime fetish needs a quick fix for some people that don't want to deal with the (in-character mind you) consequences to their actions.

 

Civilians are told to protest law IC, why don't criminals if they think it's unfair?

Congratulations for so succinctly expressing the worst mindset on the server in a mere three paragraphs.

Why are you mindlessly arguing that all consequences are good? If your character is shot in the head over a mild insult, that's a consequence but it's not a reasonable one. Lots of ostensibly in character consequences are stupid and thus dealt with out of character - just look at the Report Player section. The points system isn't bad in character, just like a low crime rate because of robocops isn't bad in character - but they have a negative impact on roleplay quality and so are dealt with OOC.

You can mock criminal characters for not 'fitting in', and I can argue that it's hard to fit in with a bunch of British self-inserts who divide their time between esexing, clubbing and replying to suggestions they know nothing about. But none of this is to do with the original post. 

As has already been said, people roleplaying criminals are supposed to get arrested. It's part of the portrayal, but the points system is arbitrary and unfair in how it significantly affects the number of days that people need to roleplay in jail. People like you who are saying that players should just respond by being 'careful' are outing themselves as garbage roleplayers who don't play believable criminal characters, who are sometimes reckless and foolish, but versions of themselves who no one enjoys interacting with.

[Timzii]

23 minutes ago, Kipps said:

As has already been said, people roleplaying criminals are supposed to get arrested. It's part of the portrayal, but the points system is arbitrary and unfair in how it significantly affects the number of days that people need to roleplay in jail. People like you who are saying that players should just respond by being 'careful' are outing themselves as garbage roleplayers who don't play believable criminal characters, who are sometimes reckless and foolish, but versions of themselves who no one enjoys interacting with.

 Point system has nothing to do with how many days you have to spend in jail. It's when you reach 30 criminal points when there's a required court case to evaluate what happens with your characters future.  I still believe the criminal points set a balanace of how much criminal activities your character can be caught doing before you're infront of a judge who decides your faith. 

[Kipps]

27 minutes ago, Timzii said:

 Point system has nothing to do with how many days you have to spend in jail. It's when you reach 30 criminal points when there's a required court case to evaluate what happens with your characters future.  I still believe the criminal points set a balanace of how much criminal activities your character can be caught doing before you're infront of a judge who decides your faith. 

If you read the original post, you'd see that the suggestion is to replace the system rather than remove it entirely. 

In an earlier post, you also suggested that I only made this suggestion because I'm angry about being arrested - even though I have never been arrested and only roleplay as an inmate. So that was another thing you got wrong.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Kipps

[Trupiano]

1 hour ago, Timzii said:

 Point system has nothing to do with how many days you have to spend in jail. It's when you reach 30 criminal points when there's a required court case to evaluate what happens with your characters future.  I still believe the criminal points set a balanace of how much criminal activities your character can be caught doing before you're infront of a judge who decides your faith. 

The issue with the point system is it's entirely predictable and can frankly be gamed. You only have to worry about life in prison if you reach 30 points, something a lot of people are able to avoid while still committing ridiculous and egregious crimes. Things like motive, the details of the crime, past criminal history have nothing to do with sentencing. This "CK" style request only changes one thing, It allows judges flexibility. No longer will you have to wait till someone hits 30 points before you get them off the street, if someone commits a specifically horrible crime, boom life sentence just like IRL. PD able to put together a concrete long form investigation will actually result in a W instead of spending 3 months doing an investigation only for the people you convicted to spend 2 IRL days behind bars.

 

I don't mean to be blunt, but frankly it seems like you and a lot of other people who are against this are so because this is perceived to be easier on criminals. But the thing is, being hard on criminals isn't exactly working. The point system did not have it's intended effect, people could still crimegrind regardless it just came down to if they get caught or not. At least with this suggestion, each and every crime could have the potential of being a seriously long sentence.