12) Crime-free areas, Port Terminal and Loading docks.

[Moonsong]

18 minutes ago, Raf Simons Raven said:

 

Wow. 

 

That's... wow...

 

Show me a video of someone robbing every single trucker they see. I’m genuinely curious now. 
 

 

it sounds to me you want truckers to have immunity to crimes despite there being everything put in place to prevent robberies. CCTV, security, fences, cops patrolling constantly. In my opinion? Coming off very play to win bra. IC issue. 
 

 

By making this a safe zone? You’re taking RP out from the Gruppe6 guys that built a faction on providing security for companies and problems like this. 
 

 

 

 

 

Since you asked..

https://streamable.com/ziisul

 

Now tell me how is this ok? Just because you refuse to accept that it's a problem doesn't make it fact. Whether or not it has happened to you is completely irrelevant, I've never ONCE been robbed in my 3 years of playing here but denying that it doesn't happen to others would be ignorance at best.

 

One last time for your benefit. although the actual suggestion by the OP does suggest it, I infact stated I was opposed to it in general just that  merely that robberies should not be allowed in these areas, as it is completely unrealistic in every sense.. not that crime itself shouldn't be allowed. What part of that is hard to understand?

[99]

3 hours ago, bingbing said:

Perhaps law enforcement could react IC to the increase in robberies in that area and deal with it accordingly?

I wish it was that easy man. It's been tried. I have IC'ly reported these things to PD too many times to count. It's always the same response. "Well if they are already gone, then there's nothing we can do. Did you get a description?" They either take the down the description or don't but nothing ever changes in terms of patrol frequency at the ports. I've also sent it up the chain politically and emailed more than one politician in the past about it and they made sure to tell me they'd bring it up during their sessions or whatever. Never seen anything really come from it. The IC response is just not enough to curtail the issue because frankly its an OOC portrayal issue that was brought on by IFM's stance on how population and crime is to be perceived. It's something that can not be fixed through just IC methods. It's been tried. It hasn't helped.

3 hours ago, Raf Simons Raven said:

So they should be untouchable.... crimes occur on ports and surrounding all the time. I’m not talking armed robbery one a lone worker (probably happens none the less, it’s 2021) but robberies do happen.

Violent crime such as robbery does not happen at the Port of Los Angeles often at all. Realistically a port does not get hardly any violent crime. This is for the entire year of 2020. So saying it's realistic is just plain wrong. Sorry.

 

https://kentico.portoflosangeles.org/getmedia/ddd88ccb-765c-41fb-a96e-a2bfe97cc762/2020-LAPP-Annual-Crime-Statistics

 

Now I don't feel it should be made crime-free because a lot of cool supplier/gun/smuggling stuff could be done, but there should be a restriction for petty things like robbing trucks while they are still on the premises of the port.

Edited October 28, 2021 by 99

[DasFroggy]

1 hour ago, 99 said:

I've also sent it up the chain politically and emailed more than one politician in the past about it and they made sure to tell me they'd bring it up during their sessions or whatever. Never seen anything really come from it.

 

Nothing ever is going to come from it. The legislative body has to work against an invisible cornmaze of OOC limitations, learning of what isn't allowed only as they bump up against it. Passing legislation that could potentially impact the criminal community in ways that some of them consider "inconvenient" is reason enough to have the legislation crumpled up and binned before the ink is dry.

 

Suffice to say, I'm not surprised the legislature's been pretty quiet lately, and even less surprised that they're not really moving on resolving the crime issue anymore.

[Engelbert]

8 hours ago, Raf Simons Raven said:

So they should be untouchable.... crimes occur on ports and surrounding all the time. I’m not talking armed robbery one a lone worker (probably happens none the less, it’s 2021) but robberies do happen. 
 

I think I’ve been robbed like once since joining the server lmao. so I’m unsure if you guys are AFK outside all the time or what. 
 

 

I think you should get out more IG. Literally every second report on forums starts with "Basically we are robbing this guy. Basically we spotted this character standing alone. Basically we saw this character going into an alley. Basically we did a U turn after noticing this character standing alone there." Which BASICALLY means, that it does not matter where you are hanging out, if there is a robber car on the prowl, they will lock onto you. And robbing a truck driver I personally see as Metagaming, because people know they are paid in cash for their job, so they have money. And some of them even have guns. That is well known server culture, which is why every robbery begins with "/me pats his or her waist and yanks the pistol they have." And that is NOT IC. That's OOC knowledge of players participating in said robbery. \

 

My idea about making loading docks and terminal crime-free stems from this issue, of people using OOC knowledge that truckers have money on them.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Engelbert

[Vaper]

On 10/16/2021 at 7:43 AM, Parker said:

Chainrobbing should be reported. I really disapprove of robberies down at the port but adding this to the list would set a bad precedent. I think this should be something lobbied for IC - more police patrols, or even trucking companies engaging security companies to complete regular patrols of their delivery locations.

Exactly that.

[Raf Simons Raven]

15 hours ago, Moonsong said:

 

Since you asked..

https://streamable.com/ziisul

 

Now tell me how is this ok? Just because you refuse to accept that it's a problem doesn't make it fact. Whether or not it has happened to you is completely irrelevant, I've never ONCE been robbed in my 3 years of playing here but denying that it doesn't happen to others would be ignorance at best.

 

One last time for your benefit. although the actual suggestion by the OP does suggest it, I infact stated I was opposed to it in general just that  merely that robberies should not be allowed in these areas, as it is completely unrealistic in every sense.. not that crime itself shouldn't be allowed. What part of that is hard to understand?

This whole video is........ Jesus.

 

See that's just shit portrayal lmfao and I'm pretty sure that's against the rules too. I thought these script/business spots were already safe zones, no need to make all of Elysian a safe zone just report guys like this.

 

A better rule suggestion would've been on the whole kidnapping someone during a random robbery. 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Engelbert said:

I think you should get out more IG. Literally every second report on forums starts with "Basically we are robbing this guy. Basically we spotted this character standing alone. Basically we saw this character going into an alley. Basically we did a U turn after noticing this character standing alone there." Which BASICALLY means, that it does not matter where you are hanging out, if there is a robber car on the prowl, they will lock onto you. And robbing a truck driver I personally see as Metagaming, because people know they are paid in cash for their job, so they have money. And some of them even have guns. That is well known server culture, which is why every robbery begins with "/me pats his or her waist and yanks the pistol they have." And that is NOT IC. That's OOC knowledge of players participating in said robbery. \

 

My idea about making loading docks and terminal crime-free stems from this issue, of people using OOC knowledge that truckers have money on them.

 

Lol. I think this is a you problem. If you're out and about and not paying attention and allow for 3 people to jump out on you? That's a you problem, start being aware of your surroundings lol. How are you trying to fix an IC issue (your lack of awareness) with a new safe zone placing, cmon bra. 

 

 

[Moonsong]

32 minutes ago, Raf Simons Raven said:

This whole video is........ Jesus.

 

See that's just shit portrayal lmfao and I'm pretty sure that's against the rules too. I thought these script/business spots were already safe zones, no need to make all of Elysian a safe zone just report guys like this.

 

 

Exactly, this is the type of shit I was talking about. I was so surprised the handling admin deemed it was ok, it should be explicitly in the rules that you can't rob in places like this so savy players can't bullshit an excuse and hide behind 'it's not a safezone lul'. I know for a fact Nervous has stated in the past that it's not allowed to rob in scripted areas like this, but it's not been put in the rules. So as it stands, it's technically allowed but just shouldn't be happening.

I'm not even a trucker, the job is boring as fuck but noone deserves shit like this. As for the rest of the port? I don't really care what happens there as long as it's realistic. Just not this goofy shit at loading bays. Hopefully you understand what I was getting at now.

 

[DasFroggy]

3 hours ago, Raf Simons Raven said:

See that's just shit portrayal lmfao and I'm pretty sure that's against the rules too.

 

 

3 hours ago, Raf Simons Raven said:

just report guys like this.

 

The admin responding to the report involving that particular incident reviewed the video, found nothing wrong with the robbery location, and instead punished the victim for metagaming.

Edited October 28, 2021 by DasFroggy

[orca112]

It's kind of ironic when people talk about IC "consequences". As for most crime due to the lack of CCTV around town and <1000 population, most crime is a hit or miss. You are either caught red-handed or you are not. And your average meta robber falls into this perfectly. No matter how much police, security and general presence you have, they will use that 2 minutes to slip through, /b showinv stop stalling and are out before the crime is reported (given the victim isn't kidnapped, stripped off their phone and knocked out to not be able to do so) to then be never found with the description of your average GTAW crime grinder "all black clothing, bike helmet, black Torrence/BF400/Sanchez/Rental/[Insert other META vehicle here]."

 

In terms of the docks - there has been multiple attempts through in-character means. Aside from port authority, Gruppe 6 and other security companies/entities, both specialized units within the Sheriff's Department and Police Department operated in the area same time, regularly being in touch with local businesses and showing increased presence in the area. What happened were ~6 officer-involved shootings from whenever potential suspects were approached and they didn't yeet skideed and some detterence whilst effectively changing 0 in the frequency and amount of crime. The moment one police vehicle is out of sight, the cockroaches come out of their holes and continue business as usual which means the only way is a 24/7 100% coverage that simply cannot be matched when every 3rd night is back to back shootings all over town.

 

The amount of consequences are way too low for any sort of crime and there is no incentive for smart crime since...why should you waste time playing the big brain games when a cheap lick in the middle of the Del Perro Pier or Legion Square works way better and is not only allowed by the rules, but perfectly fine when pulling the right strings to weazel out of player reports - should it come to one in first place. As long as there is no incentive for "smart" crime or disincentive for "dumb" crime, nothing will change. The rule of "if no one is there, no one is there" made things way too easy resulting in the hit or miss regarding crime and "reward" your low quality robbery in places it would never make any sense but on the server. If there is no environment that forces people to adapt, they will not adapt.

 

The only big changes we have seen in the past months have been in favour for easy and "dumb" crime playing perfectly in the hands of (borderline) low quality META crime á la "take car, roll around 4 deep, search for victim all over town, pull gun regardless of location, kidnap, strip search in the middle of nowhere for $200 and a phone, then beat them unconscious so you can eliminate the slightest chance of even catching a whim of suspicion" whilst giving no rewards for putting some thought into your actions á la "at least pull your target into an alley or ACTUAL snatch and grab". It gives no challenge to both criminals and law enforcement and due to the lack of infrastructure and population, things remain as either being caught red handed or not being caught at all most times. People are leaned towards taking the path of least resistance and as long as that one is your average low quality asset grab, things won't change.

 

As a fun fact - most of the characters involved in these crimes at the docks have been schmoe blank record characters that were usually namechanged/CKed within 2 weeks of their appearance. From 19 y/o bangers having nothing but a Hellhound or Torrence over italian cliché mafia on motorbikes to hispanics and asians.

 

Another fun fact - mere days after changing the trucker payout to bank money - a long overdue change - crime grinders immediately adapted and instead of truckers for cash and PF guns targeted vehicles for any items; private vehicles, fleets on the lot, you name it. Steal whatever is inside such as dashcams that were added because of the high amount of crime or vehicles in first place. And guess what? It's another hit or miss because if no one is actually there and sees anything, all of the CCTV that has been bought with platinum donator is 100% useless.

 

 

TL;DR incentivice "smart" crime over "dumb" asset grabs in the middle of the road or places known OOCly for script jobs/features, create an environment that FORCES that behavioral change if needed by making "dumb" crime hard to perform undetected or severely punished.

Edited October 29, 2021 by orca112

[Engelbert]

12 hours ago, Raf Simons Raven said:

This whole video is........ Jesus.

 

See that's just shit portrayal lmfao and I'm pretty sure that's against the rules too. I thought these script/business spots were already safe zones, no need to make all of Elysian a safe zone just report guys like this.

 

A better rule suggestion would've been on the whole kidnapping someone during a random robbery. 

 

 

 

 

Lol. I think this is a you problem. If you're out and about and not paying attention and allow for 3 people to jump out on you? That's a you problem, start being aware of your surroundings lol. How are you trying to fix an IC issue (your lack of awareness) with a new safe zone placing, cmon bra. 

 

 

See? This is the actual problem. Why should I pay attention to my surroundings when I am on the beach filled with tourists during noon? Why should I be afraid of being robbed, in a busy port where I am working during the day? I tell you why, because lazy players turned a well developed american city into slums of Johannesburg. And that's not and never been an IC issue. I took everything IC, yes I did. As a result my characters deemed Los Santos as most dangerous city in the world aka moved out. At the end, people always say the same. Report poor portrayals, they are reported, but that doesn't stop people from encountering these situations daily and all around the map. As a result, some of my characters don't even live in LS or anywhere on the given map and they just come here for a vacation, pretty much leaving only my criminal character active. So yes I took it icly. As many others who stopped roleplaying outside and took it indoors. The current state of the city would be plausible to declare martial law at the point and call in the national guard, if not worse. I was literally told be few robbers "Never stay outside after dark and always move in a group, that the game now." And if people argue, that this GTA setting, then okay I am fine with that. Just don't complain about legal players not rping outdoors, infact I myself would like to see a small experiment by shutting down non criminal and non leo roleplay for a week and see what happens.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Engelbert