Character Kill Application

[Karl_Hoover]

Faction character-kills (you join a faction, you can be CK'ed) - otherwise, forcing CK isn't gonna work.

[Caporegime]

On 5/4/2018 at 7:51 PM, DaHes said:

You're on the right track, however I think the piece you're missing is the buy in from the character whom you wish to CK with valid RP reasons.

 

Ending another player character's story should never be up to anyone but the player character themselves, unless they've agreed to the terms and RP.  I've always been one who said that if my character is killed for a valid RP reason that is story driven and not menial (eg: a botched attempt to flee from a robbery, hitting a telephone pole due to desync, being punched...to death) that I'd probably CK.  But that is my choice, not anyone else's.  If someone comes to me via PM and brings it up, I either agree to it or don't agree to it, simple as that.  And remember, MGing is for losers.

 

When you join certain organizations, you willingly accept that your choice is decided once you reach a certain level in that organization.  But it's still a choice you as the player make.  Having beef with someone without oodles and caboodles of roleplay to justify their death doesn't fly with me.  However, if I knowingly put my character into harm's way for the sake of RP, or join an organization who gets my CK perms, then that is a conscious decision made by me.  Leaving it up to admins and the player who wants the other CK'd without their permissions seems a bit dumb.

Dying isn't your choice, period. The actions your character takes within the realm of which we roleplay have consequences and sometimes these consequences result in the death of an individual or individuals - these actions are your choice. You state that "MG'ing is for losers", yet you also state that you'll only OOC'ly agree to an IC action if the IC action is not "menial"(bugs are bugs, if you get ck'd for a bug that admin needs to be removed), thus contradicting yourself. This application process would allow players to petition the administration with sufficient evidence and a story board, so to speak, of the situation which is currently happening and the reasons why they would like to take the life of said individual. The administration would then debate the evidence at hand, while keeping secrecy and then provide said player with their reasoning and decision. Those who fall victim have the right to appeal said decision, but overturning a character kill should be limited to only individuals who break the power 3 rules; DM, PG and MG.

 

1 hour ago, Topinambour said:

Also you have to re-grind all your assets, which isn't very enticing. If you could keep them after a CK (or at least a sizeable portion of them), then why not. In the current state of the rules (CK = everything lost forever), it's a "no" on so many different levels. 

That's one of the many points of a character kill. Losing everything and your character's life. The fact you cannot understand that pains me. If there were to be concessions in regards to a character's assets, you might as well toss this in the shredder and keep with the magical, memory removal - player kill. If people do not have a reason to fear dying, they will not care. It's happening now and those who are against character kills and what it entails are some of the biggest wrong doers on this server. 

 

To those who state publicly that "force CK's won't work" and that's that, please provide this debate with evidence that it doesn't work or provide an argument that doesn't show that you only care about your virtual assets.

 

If the quality of roleplay actually matters in this community and the players of this community agree with this fact, then the act of petitioning the administration for the ability to kill another individual should be granted and tested. The branding of this server is "heavy" text based roleplay and heavy is what we should strive for. Adding a level of fear and stress for our characters, and ourselves, should be met with open arms and fanfare, not shunned because we are unable to separate the out of character decisions with in character actions.

[Topinambour]

15 minutes ago, Caporegime said:

That's one of the many points of a character kill. Losing everything and your character's life. The fact you cannot understand that pains me. If there were to be concessions in regards to a character's assets, you might as well toss this in the shredder and keep with the magical, memory removal - player kill.

"Pains you"? Wow. I hadn't read something that condescending since the 5RP forums last summer... :( 

I don't know. I just don't see how having someone forced to grind would create any RP. Their entire character story, development, contacts, ... all disappear already, plus a part of their assets (I didn't say it should *all* be kept :p). They gotta restart their entire RP from zero. 

 

Now again, if someone can give me good reasons why having to grind assets creates great RP, I'm ready to read it. If it makes sense, I can even change my mind. But so far apart from "you gotta deserve" (which is a dubious moral argument, not a very scientific one), I haven't seen much =/ 

 

If anything, the fact that you have to regrind absolutely everything means people will choose a PK over a CK most of the time. In addition to losing their entire RP and character, which is already a sacrifice, they will also have to do something entirely tedious, useless, and that doesn't generate RP... Not too enticing. =/ 

 

This being said, it could be general vision of RP. Many people here seem to believe grinding is awesome RP and brings a lot of character development - I don't. Different schools I guess. 

[Caporegime]

1 hour ago, Topinambour said:

"Pains you"? Wow. I hadn't read something that condescending since the 5RP forums last summer... :( 

I don't know. I just don't see how having someone forced to grind would create any RP. Their entire character story, development, contacts, ... all disappear already, plus a part of their assets (I didn't say it should *all* be kept :p). They gotta restart their entire RP from zero. 

 

Now again, if someone can give me good reasons why having to grind assets creates great RP, I'm ready to read it. If it makes sense, I can even change my mind. But so far apart from "you gotta deserve" (which is a dubious moral argument, not a very scientific one), I haven't seen much =/ 

 

If anything, the fact that you have to regrind absolutely everything means people will choose a PK over a CK most of the time. In addition to losing their entire RP and character, which is already a sacrifice, they will also have to do something entirely tedious, useless, and that doesn't generate RP... Not too enticing. =/ 

 

This being said, it could be general vision of RP. Many people here seem to believe grinding is awesome RP and brings a lot of character development - I don't. Different schools I guess. 

If you consider me feeling sad because your entire argument is over virtual assets condescending, then I apologize. It was merely me stating that it hurts me when I see a player who willingly joins a "heavy" roleplay server not give two shites about the actual roleplay behind things. You equate your roleplay with assets, which, yes is logical as everyone's goal should be to seek out wealth and be able to live a life which you can afford, but you take it to a whole new level. Your character's assets didn't affect your decision making when it came to interacting with my character, why the hell should it affect my character's right to react to said decision? Once again it's individuals picking and choosing when bad things happen.

 

You're doing one of two things here - failing to understand or ignoring what's being said. It's painfully obvious what was purposed by the player Portz. A system where individual players can apply for and obtain the ability to finish a roleplay story with a death, but it his or the person he is after. This application would be debated over, by the administration and then the administration would then in turn give the player the ability to,carry out the character kill or deny the player. Individuals who feel that metagaming and powergaming played a part of their character kill can appeal said decision and death - thus retconning (retroactive continuity) the situation. 

 

You lose nothing but time and if you are complaining about the time you lost, then you (the proverbial roleplayer) are in the wrong hobby, because this is all we have. Time. 

 

If, so called, roleplayers ignore or simply don't understand that their character's actions have consequences, good or bad, they should be shown through action and not through out of character bickering - which always happen. 

[Topinambour]

7 hours ago, Caporegime said:

If you consider me feeling sad because your entire argument is over virtual assets condescending, then I apologize. It was merely me stating that it hurts me when I see a player who willingly joins a "heavy" roleplay server not give two shites about the actual roleplay behind things. You equate your roleplay with assets

Jesus, this is getting so much worse. The disdain is so heavy, Elon Musk will soon try to place a Tesla Roadster in orbit around it. I'll just... nevermind, I give up lol 

 

Here we have the worst of last summer's 5RP staff. "You don't agree with me, which means you're 1) Not a very true HEAVY RP'er (as if those words were an argument by themselves alone), 2) Not fit for server 3) It means you only care about assets and not RP." The absolute worst in a single paragraph. I'm  just amazed. 

 

Like I said, I know from experience engaging in constructive discussion with someone with that mindset is a waste of time, so... You win, grinding is a great use of time and it creates the best RP ever. 

Edited May 6, 2018 by Topinambour

[Nervous]

I fail to understand why it's so hard to realise that you're not here to "grind assets", you're here to roleplay. We didn't all sign up here to have assets, or at least I hope most of us didn't.

 

It's extremely disheartening to see most players care about their assets more than they care about the quality of roleplay they wish to deliver to their fellow community members. Caporegime having an opinion doesn't make him anything like 5RP's staff, it simply means he has an opinion which he is entitled to. 

 

The problem we're facing right now (yes, it's a problem) is that people lack the drive and effort to want to prioritise role play over their fancy pixel dollars. If people separate their greed for internet money and mansions then roleplay will be a lot more enjoyable.

 

By the way, this is my opinion. Please don't take this to heart and think it's an attack on anybody, it's merely a feeling that I have right now which I am more than entitled to!

Edited May 6, 2018 by Nervous

[Portz]

23 minutes ago, Topinambour said:

Jesus, this is getting so much worse. The disdain is so heavy, Elon Musk will soon try to place a Tesla Roadster in orbit around it. I'll just... nevermind, I give up lol 

 

Here we have the worst of last summer's 5RP staff. "You don't agree with me, which means you're 1) Not a very true HEAVY RP'er (as if those words were an argument by themselves alone), 2) Not fit for server 3) It means you only care about assets and not RP." The absolute worst in a single paragraph. I'm  just amazed. 

 

Like I said, I know from experience engaging in constructive discussion with someone with that mindset is a waste of time, so... You win, grinding is a great use of time and it creates the best RP ever. 

!) Where did Caporegime say grinding equaled great RP?

2) Where has anyone said that grinding equaled great RP?

 

19 minutes ago, Maca said:

I fail to understand why it's so hard to realise that you're not here to "grind assets", you're here to roleplay. We didn't all sign up here to have assets, or at least I hope most of us didn't.

 

It's extremely disheartening to see most players care about their assets more than they care about the quality of roleplay they wish to deliver to their fellow community members. Caporegime having an opinion doesn't make him anything like 5RP's staff, it simply means he has an opinion which he is entitled to. 

 

The problem we're facing right now (yes, it's a problem) is that people lack the drive and effort to want to prioritise role play over their fancy pixel dollars. If people separate their greed for internet money and mansions then roleplay will be a lot more enjoyable.

 

By the way, this is my opinion. Please don't take this to heart and think it's an attack on anybody, it's merely a feeling that I have right now which I am more than entitled to!

People do not want to change. They want the server to change to make it easier for them.

[Pascal]

40 minutes ago, Maca said:

I fail to understand why it's so hard to realise that you're not here to "grind assets", you're here to roleplay.

 

13 minutes ago, Portz said:

!) Where did Caporegime say grinding equaled great RP?

I don't think he's talking about grinding equalling RP, I think he's referring to the fact that once you start over you don't have access to the initial paychecks - which means you're heavily gated whilst you try to get the basics of character appearance + a starter vehicle. This is a period of heavy stagnation that isn't a thing on the first character, and if you want just an average car for 40k - tough luck - you're going to be not RPing for several hours whilst you work for it.

 

Starting a character anew is perfectly fine, but if there's a whole bunch of time investment before you're able to be 'setup' (scriptwise), I can see where it gets frustrating for some. People want to RP, not grind assets, which I think is what he's referring to.

[Portz]

1 hour ago, Pascal said:

 

I don't think he's talking about grinding equalling RP, I think he's referring to the fact that once you start over you don't have access to the initial paychecks - which means you're heavily gated whilst you try to get the basics of character appearance + a starter vehicle. This is a period of heavy stagnation that isn't a thing on the first character, and if you want just an average car for 40k - tough luck - you're going to be not RPing for several hours whilst you work for it.

 

Starting a character anew is perfectly fine, but if there's a whole bunch of time investment before you're able to be 'setup' (scriptwise), I can see where it gets frustrating for some. People want to RP, not grind assets, which I think is what he's referring to.

Ah. So the system would work then, eh?

[Flow]

I'm supporting this as far as assets can be kept and the reason is deep enough.