Juveniles and Policing

[Shekh]

Just now, Helm said:

What's not true? That LEOs want to avoid arresting someone as much as they can? Because I assure you, man, it's very true. Just give us the slightest reason not to. Just the slightest. And we won't. We're happy to let someone go, because then it frees us up to continue interacting with others and exploring other avenues of roleplay that doesn't include actual, real OOC work for us and performing a roleplay we've done a thousand times before. Sometimes it's enjoyable, depending on the other player. Most times it's not, and it becomes routine, boring, and downright draining. Don't you think we'd rather avoid it if we could, and replace it with some good, quality character development / interactions?

 

But, if your character (or the player) acts like a dick, you learn to treat them like a dick. If putting someone in jail means you don't have to deal with them for awhile, so be it.

 

As for why OOC guidelines are bad, why don't you read through my previous post again? There is nuance in every situation. And yet you want us to treat all situations the same and develop guidelines for how an individual should portray their character when interacting with a certain age group? People don't need guidelines for that kind of thing because every situation is different. Every character is different. If an Officer is acting like a dick to juvenile characters, rarely is it an OOC issue - and instead more of an IC issue in terms of how the "juvenile" is acting. Sometimes, too, the development of an Officer, of the player's desire to portray their character a certain way, takes the front seat, and maybe they've become a hardass who treats everyone the same in the eyes of the law, with little to no lee-way? Or, they don't like loud, obnoxious children? Or they don't like kids at all, especially ones who commit crimes? Since there's not a legal alternative, they are simply left with the option to treat them as an adult. 

 

Do you really want to be told how to portray your character in such a broad way? The most important aspect to roleplay is agency as a player to have their character act as they would act, do what they would do, and not be limited in those terms except in ways that are cringy or unethical / immoral to the point of near illegality IRL.

 

I think a more beneficial suggestion would be opening up avenues of juvenile detention with actual alternative pathways for Officers to take instead of it being a situation of arrest / not arrest in terms of misdemeanors and felonies.

I do not doubt that YOU do, but many officers are not how you are claiming. Which is what guidelines would be for. If we were in a magic fairy world where every officer has your mindset then we’d be fine, but that is not the case.

[eTaylor]

5 hours ago, Shekh said:

Im not PD I am not informed enough to create guidelines. A guideline on how to portray a LEO character would need to be done by someone with experience.

  

And you are thinking robotically in this very quote. When your character sees someone shoplift they shouldn’t think “felony, catch, prison”. They should consider the age and what impacts it has on the character.

 

Also in what world is shoplifting a felony? Eluding police on foot is a misdemeanor, and petty theft is a misdemeanor, so why was I charged with felonies especially as a teenager. I’ve experienced this IRL and any real cop would let that slide 100%, they wouldn’t even book you unless they had to especially if it was your first offence.

Looking at your record there is no filed instance of shoplifting, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up. I'm talking specifically about the two felonies and one misdemeanor you have. The two felonies carry absolutely no discretion, the misdemeanor does but according to the paperwork filed you were everything except cooperative and respectful with officers. I imagine this played a role in their decision to charge you.

[Dustyboi]

I suggested a scared straight program type of thing for this reason exactly. Like the first arrest the minor would get would be filed like a parole would be, and they'd be picked up by an officer or whatever and taken to county in hopes of changing them by speaking to inmates or w/e, after that it'd be typical charges 

[Tennplugg]

 

 

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Shekh said:

Im not PD I am not informed enough to create guidelines. A guideline on how to portray a LEO character would need to be done by someone with experience.

 

And you are thinking robotically in this very quote. When your character sees someone shoplift they shouldn’t think “felony, catch, prison”. They should consider the age and what impacts it has on the character.

 

Also in what world is shoplifting a felony? Eluding police on foot is a misdemeanor, and petty theft is a misdemeanor, so why was I charged with felonies especially as a teenager. I’ve experienced this IRL and any real cop would let that slide 100%, they wouldn’t even book you unless they had to especially if it was your first offence.

There are several guides on the LSPD forum with topics on how to not be a robocop etc.

In our penal code, the GTAW one, there isn't a different time for juvies, which means, we can't really do anything about a fifteen-year-old committing a felony. We're not allowed to ignore felonies. It'll cost us our job.

[Lloydski]

This issue should be clearly split into IC and OOC sections because there's currently a blur in this thread that I think needs to be addressed. I'll break that down here, starting with the OOC.

 

As an LEO roleplayer, I'd be more inclined to leniency to a minor character if:

• The minor's 'family' (ie home) wasn't NPC'd and they actually had player parents.
• There was an actual social services (or whatever the US use) faction/system on the server, ran by a non-police entity that managed minors.
• The characters didn't switch from untouchable gang member to scared/underage/pregnant when they get caught.

 

Now for the IC section, and this is important. Currently, and I say this because I have actually done it before, if you were to take someone home with a warning then the majority of the time they're going to be back out on the street in 5 minutes with their friends again. Whilst this is admittedly in part an OOC issue as listed above, we have to consider the IC circumstances - for example, their parents don't care so just let them back out. If officers see this as a trend, they're naturally going to choose to NOT do that because there's no effect. 

 

As a disclaimer, this isn't aimed at any player or group in particular but is a consensus I've drawn based on trends and situations I've seen or read about.

[liq]

Suspension of disbelief. There's no way any police role-player is going to be able to cater to the fact that juveniles won't be put in jail whereas being a juvenile in this role-play community and in the server's realm doesn't come with restrictions and repercussions. Furthermore, a plethora of characters aren't up to par to what they want to portray and end up committing horrendous crimes or having a specific demeanor for which they are treated as adults. Unfortunately, the county jail system we run doesn't let us impose more segregation since we've already segregated it partially by gender, so this is unfortunately one of those aspects where you need to put up with the fact that it's a game limitation.

 

There's no centralized way in which you can form OOC policy for police role-players to follow. Why? Because the policy mostly revolves around the quality of one's role-play or the existence of one's character with functional, role-played characters as parents/legal guardians (which does not happen at all). It's nearly impossible to start giving people instructions on how to deal with xyz and to consider the totality of circumstances that apply. And these aspects are actively debated, simply because me or a group might think someone's role-play quality isn't good enough when someone else might think it is, and it's nearly impossible to enforce a mindset as a policy.

 

I think what you need to do is to take it step by step. It's important to be the change you want to see. So role-play a juvenile appropriately and I have no doubt in my mind that any cop character you come across will give you fair treatment. If that doesn't happen, then start reporting individuals. I know for a fact I take someone seriously when they prove they can be taken seriously. The bottom line is this is a quid pro quo where you reap what you sow, and I can tell you for a fact that the vast majority of juvenile characters don't make it interesting for people who set out to be good police role-players and understand that they need to give criminal role-players leeway with a live-and-let-live principle.