Officially define SA as it's own State from CA

[Brett]

Pretty simple, but I'll give an explanation.

 

San Andreas as we know was loosely based on California. This is obvious due to Los Santos being based on Los Angeles, San Fierro based on San Francisco, and Las Venturas being based on Las Vegas (Despite Las Vegas being in the State of Nevada IRL). This has lead to quite a bit of confusion as to the status of if Los Santos completely replaces cities like Los Angeles, and what about cities like Vice City, Liberty City, etc in regards to the lore of the server and I believe I have a quick a simple solution to how this can be resolved and make sense in regards to GTA lore for both the server and universe. 

 

Create four additional US States. The State of Liberty, The State of Alderney, The State of North Yankton, and the State of San Andreas. The State of Liberty encompassing Liberty City, The State of Alderney with Alderney City, and the State of San Andreas with all of it's cities of San Fierro, Las Venturas, etc. 

 

Now of course, this would mean the USA has 54 States rather then 50. But I say who cares? Adding states to the union is not a particularly advanced topic, considering how we're seriously debating if we wanna make the island of Puerto Rico the 51st US State. Or even the City of Washington D.C. it's own State. And the numerous proposals of splitting existing states into new states like the US State of Jefferson. My point here being, making new states isn't an alien concept. And according to the GTA Rockstar wiki, it's consistent with how they did it as well as you can see here. 

 

Even if we wanted to go on trying to argue that just because SA was based on CA, and Liberty State was obviously based on New York, Rockstar in the HD universe would disagree that they were the same. As they wouldn't have mentioned these other actual US States as independent from the states you play the game in such as you can see here and below;

 

• Arizona (mentioned by Thomas Stubbs in The Lost and Damned, and is also the birthplace of The Ballad of Gay Tony character Evan Moss)
• Michigan (mentioned on Leftover-vacations.com)
• Ohio (mentioned in The Ballad of Gay Tony)
• South Carolina (mentioned on the radio talk show Just or Unjust on WKTT Radio)
• Texas (mentioned in GTA IV as Wade Johnson's birthplace, and in GTA Online)
• Utah (mentioned in The Ballad of Gay Tony)
• California (mentioned in a commercial for the in-game movie Dragon Brain)
• Connecticut (mentioned by various club-goers in The Ballad of Gay Tony)
• Kentucky (Mentioned on a bottle of "Richard's Kentucky Bourbon Whiskey" in GTA V)
• Florida (Mentioned in GTA IV)

 

My point in all this, is we don't have to keep having this weird grey area between does CA exist still, or is SA the new CA, or whatever other nonsense we go through. Just create the four additional states officially, have the US have 54 states in this reality, and be done with it. That way if people still want to RP that LA exists separate from LS, go for it. This doesn't mean that we still can't make loose connections of things like the LSPD taking inspiration from the LAPD, or LSSD from the LASD, and gangs taking inspiration from CA gangs, you can do whatever. But at the very least, it would be defined to allow the experience to just flow a bit more smoothly. And I don't really think a lot of people would particularly care to have 4 new states added, as this is an alternative reality video game to begin with. Just my two cents. 

[Mitch]

Just now, Brett said:

Create four additional US States. The State of Liberty, The State of Alderney, The State of North Yankton, and the State of San Andreas. The State of Liberty encompassing Liberty City, The State of Alderney with Alderney City, and the State of San Andreas with all of it's cities of San Fierro, Las Venturas, etc. 

 

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[Law]

I don’t know how I feel about this. It is a bit odd at the moment roleplaying being from Madison, Wisconsin whilst others just say they’re from San Fierro or Liberty City. Didn’t know we followed the previous game lores. 

[Brett]

6 minutes ago, Law said:

I don’t know how I feel about this. It is a bit odd at the moment roleplaying being from Madison, Wisconsin whilst others just say they’re from San Fierro or Liberty City. Didn’t know we followed the previous game lores. 

I can understand this. It's actually a part of what motivated me to at least attempt this. Because we have some people who are outright replacing entire US States with it's fictional counterpart, some who believe they're separate, and a lot of other weirdness. At least with this suggestion, people who want to RP being from like New York City, Los Angeles, or even Madison like you are can safely do so, and people who want to RP being from inside the fictional cities can safely RP that without contradiction. And with everyone being on that same page, it should reduce any confusion and people can RP it accordingly. 

[Keane]

At the moment, the senior members of the admin team are working on rewriting the rules and defining what PKs and CKs are. Once those projects are complete, continuity is next. There just isn't enough staff resources at the moment to dedicate to anything related to continuity due to how time consuming it is.

What you have suggested will likely be the first thing brought up for discussion.  Once we officially start working on it, we'll be deciding the level of community involvement in the decisions we make. Threads like this will be taken into consideration for sure.

[Mitch]

Just now, Keane said:

At the moment, the senior members of the admin team are working on rewriting the rules and defining what PKs and CKs are. Once those projects are complete, continuity is next. There just isn't enough staff resources at the moment to dedicate to anything related to continuity due to how time consuming it is.

What you have suggested will likely be the first thing brought up for discussion.  Once we officially start working on it, we'll be deciding the level of community involvement in the decisions we make. Threads like this will be taken into consideration for sure.

For the mean time, are we fine to mention the states brought up or shall we avoid it?

[Keane]

1 minute ago, Mitch said:

For the mean time, are we fine to mention the states brought up or shall we avoid it?

Until the topic is written and published, we're just going to let people use common sense when any of the states are discussed IC. We're leaning a lot more towards real life than GTA lore so keep that in mind. North Yankton in particular likely won't exist in our universe since it's only used in two missions in GTA V singleplayer. California, New York, Florida etc. that have replacements that feature heavily in GTA games will be discussed in more detail however. 

These are just my early ideas. The decision making process will involve the community's opinion, a staff discussion and Nervous' final decision so things can certainly change between now and when the thread is actually released and enforced.

[Brett]

@Rumbunctious 

 

You do have to realize that, all of the Rockstar games like Manhunt, GTA, Bully, Red Dead Redemption, etc take place in the same universe. And as from the GTA Wiki it had this  to say in regards to some things with Red Dead:

 

Quote

It is unknown whether New Austin, Nuevo Paraiso, and West Elizabeth are in the same universe, as there are no references to indicate this, but nothing to contradict it either; however, the real states of New York and California are mentioned in the game, so all three regions may be in a different universe. However, Sandy Shores (small town which featured in GTA V) has a street named Cholla Springs Avenue, a reference to a desert location in Red Dead Redemption. There is also a car hire business named Escalera Rent-A-Car, a reference to the Nuevo Paraiso town of Escalera. Also in GTA Online, you can pick John Marston or a descendant of the aforementioned to be your father.

 

As for the point about duplication of places like Vice City and Miami. You don't need to duplicate. Vice City is lore wise considered to be in the US State of Florida. You can just assume it's a separate city, just like how Gotham City from Batman is thought to be in New Jersey even though it's modeled after New York City from the writers own admissions. And as for the geography, who cares? Vice City was surrounded by large bodies of water, Liberty City the same, San Andreas is entirely surrounded by water, etc. This has legitimately never bothered people, because even if it did then people would have a huge contradiction. An example being, where did San Fierro and Las Venturas go in the HD universe of GTA when in the 3D universe they were all connected on one landmass? I guarantee you that people haven't just voided SF and LV, and believe they still exist somewhere. Even if nobody can place on a map where that is, because again, you don't need to specify a geographic location to roleplay them being separate, you can just take it at face value they exist somewhere and leave it at that. 

 

Also, fun fact about those maps. Notice how Alaska isn't highlighted like the rest of the mainland USA, despite the fact that it's a US State IRL. Same with Hawaii which from my glimpse, doesn't even appear on the map at all. If we're going to argue from the map, then you would have to explain how we suddenly don't have Alaska as a US State as it's the same color as every other part of not-america, and how Hawaii seems to not even exist as a landmass in the Pacific Ocean. 

 

My point with all this in regards to geography, or even demographics. Is that's really not a reason for us not to create the states to be separate as it seems Rockstar has intended. We're not in the real world, and thus we shouldn't be constrained to every small detail of it. Sure, LS takes inspiration from LA. Doesn't mean we have to now claim that LA and LS are now one in the same, and honestly it opens up more opportunity to just allow them to be independent entities for people to roleplay whatever. There's nothing unrealistic about this, nor is it just going to mess up anything. 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Brett

[SpartanofSparta]

The amount of stuff I hear about 'but we're based off California' annoys the hell out of me. We're not California. We're San Andreas. Let's make sure this is well known so we stop basing ourselves around stuff so much and strive our own path to make our own state.

[CloutToken]

I refuse to roleplay California and Los Angeles co-existing along San Andreas and Los Santos. Los Santos is literally identical to Los Angeles as seen here:

 

 

 

I could go on and on. Take both LEO factions for example. LSPD's history is mostly based on the LAPD's, and even uses the name of an LAPD chief in the faction thread. The motto "To Protect and To Serve" is utilized by the LAPD. The same goes for LSSD, with a former Sheriff being based on a corrupt one in the LASD, and again, the motto is the same as the LASD's "A Tradition of Service". We are literally California. Roleplaying Los Santos and Los Angeles coexisting sounds like one of the most immersion-breaking things that could come to my mind. How do you justify two completely identical cities existing alongside each other? Was a theme park based on California made in the middle of the Pacific Ocean that eventually turned into a functioning state? It makes no sense.

To just say "who cares" for every counter-argument brought up doesn't show that there's much realism put into this idea.

Edited November 23, 2019 by CloutToken