New shank rule?

[front toward enemy]

5 minutes ago, YAOMINGFROMEASTSIDELONGOS said:

'create consequences' is nearly impossible. As someone who done investigative roleplay in the jail, you have a huge ass riot and its nearly impossible because:

 

* There's a 10:1 ratio of guards to inmates.

* DA won't prosecute people who are already lifers, SHU is 'too boring' because no one knows how to roleplay a STG character properly. 

 

-

 

With that said, it's a level 4(?) yard, not a daycare. Some yards like these have mandatory requirements for all inmates to be strapped up and ready to go. Stop locking things behind these dumb request walls because it just doesn't work, never will. Too much workload for too few admins. 

 

The solution is to make shanks very weak (20+ hits to truly kill someone) because a lot of times that's how it is IRL. Shanks are super ineffective unless you're literally holding someone down and stabbing them over and over. There shouldn't be 10+ people dead from a single riot, it should be 1-2 at most and that's pushing it. 

 

 

Creatiing consequense is the answer and people will learn to roleplay in SHU. It will become a sweaty roleplay envorinment and getting sent there will be an impactful and memorable piece of character development for a criminal character.

 

A tiering system for shank availability and effectiveness could be used here, inmates have several ways to create several different weapon types that all have varying damage outputs.

 

Example - 

 

Tomahawks - require materials purchasable from commissary - small damage bonus modifier (125%)

 

Icepicks - require materials from commissary + 1 metal stock obtained from inmate job in metalshop - medium damage modifier ( 150 - 175%)

 

Bonecrushers - require multiple metal stock obtained from inmate job in metalshop - high damage modifier (200%)

 

 

 

This strengthens and enhances a player drivern economy, removes need for ooc limitations and also maintains immersion and the need for established prison gangs and people attending work. 

[Baker.]

The intention behind not allowing them to be requested in the first few days of the facility opening from my understanding was to allow everyone to settle into their new surroundings and avoid it spiralling into chaos from the very start, then dishing out a small amount to the cars was to ease into things. This isn't going to be how things look going forwards, and as Naeno's stated it will change until we find that middle ground. Reverting to requests via report will no doubt return soon, but if there's concerns about how many there are, then perhaps we need to be a bit more diligent about who they're given to, why and the roleplay put into their crafting. Altering the damage they do is something that's already being discussed, if adding alternatives is something people want to see then we'll see if that can be done.

As far as comparisons being made with the situation surrounding gun supply, this is something we're actively working on and have made a number of changes in the last few days to address and will continue to do so. We are looking to improve communication with the community, the ticketing system in the public Discord being a good first step. It's impossible to address everything at once while having had several changes in the team, but if you have grievances and suggestions that would address them then please continue to be vocal so we can make amendments.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Baker.

[Trupiano]

6 hours ago, slump said:

I think the issue stems from everyone and their mothers making a shank and using them needlessly, how many times have there been constant shut downs and riots cause of shank over usage? Would you prefer things to be wound back a bit and let prison be what it is, a place to develop your characters further in the pen, or be in a constant un ending loop of riots and lockdowns?

 

This type of big brother, we know best attitude is what time and time again smothers out jail RP. 

 

What you see as a constant un ending loop of riots and lockdowns is the development you seem to be trying to foster and protect. Constant violence and chaos means constant RP and politicking. That's the thing I don't think you understand,  if it was truly chaotic violence that was getting in the way of prison RP, the prison RPers would be the first to complain. 

[DLimit]

13 hours ago, radreaper100 said:

unintuitive change that destroys the entire ic process of producing one. its a shank, not a crossbow. u can easily put one together with minimal effort. 

 

u wanna go harder on people acting up in los santos county prison? put that death penalty to use. revoke parole and visitation. put them in solitary for longer.

This.

 

EDIT: Fisheman liked my post, so this MUST be accepted.

Edited October 17, 2023 by DLimit

[Xantholic]

10 hours ago, AnthonyCourtney said:

2 - people who don't want to associate or rp with said factions can't do what they want in jail

At the end of the day prison is a highly controlled environment whose criminal economy is run by the gangs. There's no such thing as 'doing what you want' in jail, you're either part of a group, or you're in protective custody.

[DLimit]

5 hours ago, Trupiano said:

 

This type of big brother, we know best attitude is what time and time again smothers out jail RP. 

 

What you see as a constant un ending loop of riots and lockdowns is the development you seem to be trying to foster and protect. Constant violence and chaos means constant RP and politicking. That's the thing I don't think you understand,  if it was truly chaotic violence that was getting in the way of prison RP, the prison RPers would be the first to complain. 

To be fair, there isn't a lot of developing going on when half the rioters get PK'd by bleeding out. I've seen many riots where it had ended that way. I personally think that shanks should be easily accessible, but consequences should be harsher. Treat SHU like the actual SHU, and limit visitation & parole and other privileges (not Rights) inside the prison. 3 days in seg over a murder is such a light sentence. Create a powerful deterrence for people to conduct their murders undetected, or with a lack of evidence.

Edited October 17, 2023 by DLimit

[HappyPancake]

15 hours ago, Bandit. said:

How does everyone feel about the shank rule in prison? I personally believe it’s a rule that will turn SADCR into TTCF in terms of activity.

 

5 shanks a month for each “faction” essentially consolidates the power to an even tighter ooc group. Bad call.

Having been a Deputy dedicating time to TTCF and being in SADCR now, I can tell you outright the reason no one wanted to do jail duty and the few that did got burnt out is because of the overabundant amount of shanks existing, sometimes with the most ridiculous of RPs. 

 

Without exaggerating, we in SD have not been able to have 15 full minutes of RP without an inmate: 

- Punching another

- Stabbing another

- Starting a full out riot.

 

How many yard times happened and got ruined because of the fact people can't imagine RP without needing a weapon? How many chows, library times, commissaries, and so on?

 

 

The feeling of boredom of having to: 1- witness every 10 minutes a stabbing, 2- bring everyone back to their cell and do ad-seg when needed (not that it matters, people barely see this as a punishment, they AFK and call it a day for the most part), taking up about 20/30 minutes from right after the stabbing to the moment peace was brought back in the pod (solely by confining one inmate per cell one by one respectively), 3- call or NPC LSFD's response, which both cases included can go anywhere from 15 to 45 minutes, then call or NPC DMEC if applicable, which itself can also take from 15 to 45 minutes.

 

For the full deal you stand at about 1hr to 3hr for one single incident, which represents basically more or less an evening, of just standing around and not being able to do RP because you have to be focused on one incident made by one guy. Rinse, repeat every day, of every week for the entire year.  

 

I was one of the first to complain and request a shank wipe and stricter rules for shanks within TTCF and then within Bolingbroke. 

 

Added to that, we can consider the play-to-win mentality of those who hold and craft shanks, as in I've seen RP being done of (somehow) managing to cut off benches legs with a comb, or with ridiculous items, and even then, once the shank was obtained, no /cim or /scene was left to give a clue to the CO that a bench's leg would be missing or anything of the sort. 

 

So, no, this rule is not in vain. A stricter control of shanks is needed to ensure quality RPand moreover realism (as opposed to near-powergaming at times, crafting a shank out of a tuna can when it's given out in packets, not cans).

 

 

To end this post, I'll quote a perfect example to that, being that within the first two hours of SADCR being a thing, a stabbing was already reported, just before the shank wipe.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by HappyPancake

[front toward enemy]

13 minutes ago, HappyPancake said:

Having been a Deputy dedicating time to TTCF and being in SADCR now, I can tell you outright the reason no one wanted to do jail duty and the few that did got burnt out is because of the overabundant amount of shanks existing, sometimes with the most ridiculous of RPs. 

 

Without exaggerating, we in SD have not been able to have 15 full minutes of RP without an inmate: 

- Punching another

- Stabbing another

- Starting a full out riot.

 

How many yard times happened and got ruined because of the fact people can't imagine RP without needing a weapon? How many chows, library times, commissaries, and so on?

 

 

The feeling of boredom of having to: 1- witness every 10 minutes a stabbing, 2- bring everyone back to their cell and do ad-seg when needed (not that it matters, people barely see this as a punishment, they AFK and call it a day for the most part), taking up about 20/30 minutes from right after the stabbing to the moment peace was brought back in the pod (solely by confining one inmate per cell one by one respectively), 3- call or NPC LSFD's response, which both cases included can go anywhere from 15 to 45 minutes, then call or NPC DMEC if applicable, which itself can also take from 15 to 45 minutes.

 

For the full deal you stand at about 1hr to 3hr for one single incident, which represents basically more or less an evening, of just standing around and not being able to do RP because you have to be focused on one incident made by one guy. Rinse, repeat every day, of every week for the entire year.  

 

I was one of the first to complain and request a shank wipe and stricter rules for shanks within TTCF and then within Bolingbroke. 

 

Added to that, we can consider the play-to-win mentality of those who hold and craft shanks, as in I've seen RP being done of (somehow) managing to cut off benches legs with a comb, or with ridiculous items, and even then, once the shank was obtained, no /cim or /scene was left to give a clue to the CO that a bench's leg would be missing or anything of the sort. 

 

So, no, this rule is not in vain. A stricter control of shanks is needed to ensure quality RPand moreover realism (as opposed to near-powergaming at times, crafting a shank out of a tuna can when it's given out in packets, not cans).

 

 

To end this post, I'll quote a perfect example to that, being that within the first two hours of SADCR being a thing, a stabbing was already reported, just before the shank wipe.

 

 

 

The stabbing you're bitterly mentioning at the end of your pointless jaded emotional rant was carried out by an official faction, involved a character kill and started the foundations for a cars SHU program. Your point is void, you have demonstrated a lack of fundamental grasping of the topic.

[HappyPancake]

4 minutes ago, front toward enemy said:

 

The stabbing you're bitterly mentioning at the end of your pointless jaded emotional rant was carried out by an official faction, involved a character kill and started the foundations for a cars SHU program. Your point is void, you have demonstrated a lack of fundamental grasping of the topic.

Ah, yes. I don't agree with you so my point is void. 

 

Perfect logic. 

Let's cut this here, you will clearly not change your opinion and I honestly won't agree that wasting 4 hours because people can't do anything other than stab each other is normal. 

[front toward enemy]

1 hour ago, HappyPancake said:

Ah, yes. I don't agree with you so my point is void. 

 

Perfect logic. 

Let's cut this here, you will clearly not change your opinion and I honestly won't agree that wasting 4 hours because people can't do anything other than stab each other is normal. 

Well your point was that stabbings equate to borderline trollish antics and you tried to give an example of it. It was fallacious, it has nothing to do with you disagreeing with me. It has everything to do with you not having a valid point to make and probably being in the wrong space if you think people getting stabbed in prison is weird.