New shank rule?

[frost.]

19 minutes ago, slump said:

I think the issue stems from everyone and their mothers making a shank and using them needlessly, how many times have there been constant shut downs and riots cause of shank over usage? Would you prefer things to be wound back a bit and let prison be what it is, a place to develop your characters further in the pen, or be in a constant un ending loop of riots and lockdowns?

I think the people prefer to have their shanks, which isn't stopping them from developing their character.

 

I've seen countless screenshots from players where they are developing their character and roleplaying with one another, whilst having a shank.

 

#GiveThePeopleWhatTheyWant!

[fisheman]

25 minutes ago, slump said:

I think the issue stems from everyone and their mothers making a shank and using them needlessly, how many times have there been constant shut downs and riots cause of shank over usage? Would you prefer things to be wound back a bit and let prison be what it is, a place to develop your characters further in the pen, or be in a constant un ending loop of riots and lockdowns?

I think the Prison rpiers like the riots and lockdowns it is how they develop their characters and earn their reputation and their tattoos But when my character "Jhon Salmon" was in the county jail and the state prison I didnot see people use shanks only when doing CK on someone in their own faction "Cleaning house" I like the old system it was Good 

Edited October 16, 2023 by fisheman

[AnthonyCourtney]

Same thing as it was back in the day on the other server, we already know this is just going to make it so all the OOC power is in the hands of whoever IFM decides it is and make the prison experience more boring and limited than it should be.

 

Here's what we're risking doing again, since it's what happened 10 years ago

 

1 - IFM decides only X or Y factions can have certain things in jail, giving them ridiculous OOC power not really based on anything

2 - people who don't want to associate or rp with said factions can't do what they want in jail

3 - people start resenting prison factions because they're now seen (potentially wrongfully) as the appointed arbiters of what you can do in prison and it starts feeling like their personal fiefdom

4 - people start AFKing their prison sentences or not logging on and refusing to RP with said factions, turn to dumbass trolling for fun which in turn ruins everybody's prison experience

5 - eventually since the activity of prison factions typically ebbs and flows, there won't be anyone in prison to even roleplay with properly which means even the most well intentioned RPers will just AFK their sentence out or not even bother logging in

 

Obviously none of this may happen but it's weird to even walk down this path of giving an exclusive amount of people rights to do X or Y basic criminal activities again considering it's been proved even on this very server that that's a terrible way to do things and doesn't benefit the server as a whole at all while also creating tons of avoidable OOC problems.

 

If retards really can't stop making shanks and then doing retarded shit with them then that's what ajails and bans are there for. Don't limit my roleplay because somebody with 24 hours on the server stabbed an AB shotcaller for stepping on his shoes.

Edited October 16, 2023 by AnthonyCourtney

[Naeno]

Nobody ever said it was just going to be 5 shanks for an entire month. That's absurd. It was clearly communicated that this is a test run of a new way of approaching the shank problem. There are already glaring issues with this way, just like the old system had plenty of terrible problems associated with it. There has to be a middle ground between how the prison is right now in terms of shanks and how TTCF was throughout its lifecycle. We're already looking at ways for individuals to be able to request their own shanks without having to run through their faction as an issue has already been brought up surrounding that part. This isn't some IFM ruining the server type of deal. We're working closely and in constant communication with our four prison factions plus corrections at the same time. They all equally were down to try this change and guess what, if it sucks and there are issues (which we are already aware there are some), it'll be changed in the couple days to answer those problems.

 

I don't think the old system was the correct solution to the shank problem, but I also do not think this new test run of this system is also the correct solution. This is why it is a test run. Things will change, almost immediately. I understand everyone wants shanks and they're not some crazy rare tool to have. However, their usage during TTCF's time was frankly absurd. All prison factions are being given equal amounts here (yes, even API), nobody is above one another when it comes this. 

TLDR: We're looking into ways to be able to request a shank on your own without having the prison turn into what TTCF was with shank usage. 

If you have suggestions on what you would want to be done differently, we're more than willing to listen and this thread can serve as that. I'm closely monitoring this entire thing myself and while it was my idea in collaboration with other factions, I frankly do not care if it gets thrown out because it's bad. All ears on what other way we can approach this as obviously there are issues with this test run of the system already. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Naeno

[Bandit.]

4 minutes ago, Naeno said:

Nobody ever said it was just going to be 5 shanks for an entire month. That's absurd. It was clearly communicated that this is a test run of a new way of approaching the shank problem. There are already glaring issues with this way, just like the old system had plenty of terrible problems associated with it. There has to be a middle ground between how the prison is right now in terms of shanks and how TTCF was throughout its lifecycle. We're already looking at ways for individuals to be able to request their own shanks without having to run through their faction as an issue has already been brought up surrounding that part. This isn't some IFM ruining the server type of deal. We're working closely and in constant communication with our four prison factions plus corrections at the same time. They all equally were down to try this change and guess what, if it sucks and there are issues (which we are already aware there are some), it'll be changed in the couple days to answer those problems.

 

I don't think the old system was the correct solution to the shank problem, but I also do not think this new test run of this system is also the correct solution. This is why it is a test run. Things will change, almost immediately. I understand everyone wants shanks and they're not some crazy rare tool to have. However, their usage during TTCF's time was frankly absurd. All prison factions are being given equal amounts here (yes, even API), nobody is above one another when it comes this. 

TLDR: We're looking into ways to be able to request a shank on your own without having the prison turn into what TTCF was with shank usage. 

If you have suggestions on what you would want to be done differently, we're more than willing to listen and this thread can serve as that. I'm closely monitoring this entire thing myself and while it was my idea in collaboration with other factions, I frankly do not care if it gets thrown out because it's bad. All ears on what other way we can approach this as obviously there are issues with this test run of the system already. 

The main concern here is that this was asked to a handful of people. Hell if you had asked me when I was helping run the white car id have agreed too. Because it leaves the sole leaders of the faction in charge of who can get what and when. I understand the idea behind it. This is another thing that has admin intervention and oversight when it isn’t necessarily needed. This is going to be nothing but how guns are treated, whoever holds them holds the power. 
 

The idea that someone can put their ooc hatred for someone aside is a nice thought when allowing roleplay to happen, that’s just not true and if you aren’t in good graces with a particular faction ooc they are NOT going to help you. 

[rainbowlarva]

55 minutes ago, slump said:

I think the issue stems from everyone and their mothers making a shank and using them needlessly, how many times have there been constant shut downs and riots cause of shank over usage? Would you prefer things to be wound back a bit and let prison be what it is, a place to develop your characters further in the pen, or be in a constant un ending loop of riots and lockdowns?

just increase the difficulty of obtaining them so it's only viable for characters doing serious time

[front toward enemy]

54 minutes ago, slump said:

I think the issue stems from everyone and their mothers making a shank and using them needlessly, how many times have there been constant shut downs and riots cause of shank over usage? Would you prefer things to be wound back a bit and let prison be what it is, a place to develop your characters further in the pen, or be in a constant un ending loop of riots and lockdowns?

 

 

The correct response is create consequences for stabbings, not remove knives. The riots and lockdowns you're using as a strawman in this scenario could happen and were happening without knives. The point you made is falacious and adds nothing to the discussion.

[YAOMINGFROMEASTSIDELONGOS]

'create consequences' is nearly impossible. As someone who done investigative roleplay in the jail, you have a huge ass riot and its nearly impossible because:

 

* There's a 10:1 ratio of guards to inmates.

* DA won't prosecute people who are already lifers, SHU is 'too boring' because no one knows how to roleplay a STG character properly. 

 

-

 

With that said, it's a level 4(?) yard, not a daycare. Some yards like these have mandatory requirements for all inmates to be strapped up and ready to go. Stop locking things behind these dumb request walls because it just doesn't work, never will. Too much workload for too few admins. 

 

The solution is to make shanks very weak (20+ hits to truly kill someone) because a lot of times that's how it is IRL. Shanks are super ineffective unless you're literally holding someone down and stabbing them over and over. There shouldn't be 10+ people dead from a single riot, it should be 1-2 at most and that's pushing it. 

 

[Naeno]

11 minutes ago, Bandit. said:

The main concern here is that this was asked to a handful of people. Hell if you had asked me when I was helping run the white car id have agreed too. Because it leaves the sole leaders of the faction in charge of who can get what and when. I understand the idea behind it. This is another thing that has admin intervention and oversight when it isn’t necessarily needed. This is going to be nothing but how guns are treated, whoever holds them holds the power. 
 

The idea that someone can put their ooc hatred for someone aside is a nice thought when allowing roleplay to happen, that’s just not true and if you aren’t in good graces with a particular faction ooc they are NOT going to help you. 

 

I understand this concern and it's completely valid. That's not what was trying to be pursued here. We're already working on trying to figure out the best way to make it so that anyone can get a shank but not literally have every conflict turn into a killing spree. Work with us here.

EDIT: I am already looking to see if shank damage by itself can be lowered. That would help out a lot.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Naeno

[Bandit.]

10 minutes ago, Naeno said:

 

I understand this concern and it's completely valid. That's not what was trying to be pursued here. We're already working on trying to figure out the best way to make it so that anyone can get a shank but not literally have every conflict turn into a killing spree. Work with us here.

EDIT: I am already looking to see if shank damage by itself can be lowered. That would help out a lot.

This. Shanks having to do 10-20 hits could make it more realistic and have people surviving more often and forced to PC up.