Jail & Prison discussion

[Midwest]

6 hours ago, ElDiablo said:

According to Bolingbroke's GTA Wiki page (https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Bolingbroke_Penitentiary), the facility is based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Correctional_Institution,_Victorville. I think it has never been done before, but the server would stand out if it had a federal yard/wing within Bolingbroke.

I haven't seen it done on any server that federal and state charges are treated realistically, this would be a great chance for this to be implemented. Of course that this would make it more immersive for the Paisa factions but also for any other form of organized crime such as the Italian or Irish crews. New type of prison organizations could come out from this and the server's quality would be on top.

I'm only against using it as a fed institution, at least the first prison, for one reason that exists that is the same with all other federal factions. There's an entire new world of information you need to nail down that is much trickier to get a grasp of, especially when the entire federal level of government is something most players have not had interaction with nor even touched on really outside case law. This would require massive additions outside the prison itself. 

[Midwest]

1 hour ago, Tzula said:

screenshots?

We don't have access currently, but the other SADCR project had one that'd been worked on a lot.

[Midwest]

12 hours ago, Gapis said:

While I totally get that the prison culture differs from jail culture quite a lot and the former appeals more to the broader community (no doubt thanks to more books, shows movies, and broadly accessible materials on the subject) I still think that from a strictly gameplay-oriented perspective - this will be a step backward.
 

LSSD already struggles to attract enough LEOs interested in permanent custody positions, and we're talking about establishing a brand new faction that is supposed to focus entirely on this type of roleplay and somehow attract more players. SADOC/SADCR from LSRP that so many people seem to be nostalgic towards had the exact same staffing issues and the prison was closed to any sort of faction/inmate conflict bar few hours a day due to there not being enough guards on duty. 
 

On top of that, pretty much the entire legal system we currently have in place (bails, parole) has been built with the jail in mind, and will need to be heavily adjusted to work with prison - That's not gonna happen overnight, and is going to require a lot of effort from a huge number of people to make any functional and narrative sense.

The Jail comes with its own problems and limitations, but the resources required to get the Prison going could be put towards further developing and improving the current system, rather than breaking it apart to create a foundation for something that might end up in the exact same place couple of months/weeks down the line.
 

Hard not to draw GTAW LC parallels with this hype.
 

On the first and second part here, LSSD has had plenty of custody dedicated folks. Pretty much all of them have left and favor SADCR, in fact, the old planning team had most of them until they left the server entirely.

[Tzula]

35 minutes ago, Midwest said:

LSSD has had plenty of custody dedicated folks. Pretty much all of them have left and favor SADCR,

1 hour ago, Narco said:

 

Out of curiosity I noticed you said TTCF was restricted when it came to roleplay, can you elaborate on ho w? what restrictions were there in TTCF that SADOC wouldn't have? 

To elaborate, restricted in regards to location, were in the same pod with 24/7 camera footage. Everything is watched. With Bolingbroke we can have a more open and spread out environment but in a general area, thats lacked off. To give an example, while the trustee system is great, it completely highlighted the issue of mobility ttcf lacks.

[DeadPlaya]

13 hours ago, Gapis said:

While I totally get that the prison culture differs from jail culture quite a lot and the former appeals more to the broader community (no doubt thanks to more books, shows movies, and broadly accessible materials on the subject) I still think that from a strictly gameplay-oriented perspective - this will be a step backward.
 

LSSD already struggles to attract enough LEOs interested in permanent custody positions, and we're talking about establishing a brand new faction that is supposed to focus entirely on this type of roleplay and somehow attract more players. SADOC/SADCR from LSRP that so many people seem to be nostalgic towards had the exact same staffing issues and the prison was closed to any sort of faction/inmate conflict bar few hours a day due to there not being enough guards on duty. 
 

On top of that, pretty much the entire legal system we currently have in place (bails, parole) has been built with the jail in mind, and will need to be heavily adjusted to work with prison - That's not gonna happen overnight, and is going to require a lot of effort from a huge number of people to make any functional and narrative sense.

The Jail comes with its own problems and limitations, but the resources required to get the Prison going could be put towards further developing and improving the current system, rather than breaking it apart to create a foundation for something that might end up in the exact same place couple of months/weeks down the line.
 

Hard not to draw GTAW LC parallels with this hype.
 

A brand new server cannot be compared to a prison that is already 75% implemented. And just to touch on your comparison, LC did HAVE a DOC. And everyone involved appreciated it. If the only reason why something isn't implemented is "lack of interest" then 60% of the map can be locked off. Those that want that type of RP will flock to it, and those that don't will continue to ignore it. This is a net positive all around and it's honestly a little shocking to see that it's taken GTA:W this many YEARS to consider implementing it.

Edited January 31, 2023 by DeadPlaya

[ElDiablo]

6 hours ago, Midwest said:

I'm only against using it as a fed institution, at least the first prison, for one reason that exists that is the same with all other federal factions. There's an entire new world of information you need to nail down that is much trickier to get a grasp of, especially when the entire federal level of government is something most players have not had interaction with nor even touched on really outside case law. This would require massive additions outside the prison itself. 

I think it's worth it to implement, it can be done little by little, and I didn't mean to have the prison as a whole as a fed institution, just one yard or area of it to have federal inmates, it could be very interesting. I remember an Italian Organized Crime prison crew back in SAMP, those are the type of factions that could come up and give the server more variety. There's a lot of info out there and many of the prison youtubers were in federal correctional facilities as well. To be honest it can improve the realism a ton.

Edited January 31, 2023 by ElDiablo

[sodium soldier]

19 hours ago, Gapis said:

While I totally get that the prison culture differs from jail culture quite a lot and the former appeals more to the broader community (no doubt thanks to more books, shows movies, and broadly accessible materials on the subject) I still think that from a strictly gameplay-oriented perspective - this will be a step backward.
 

LSSD already struggles to attract enough LEOs interested in permanent custody positions, and we're talking about establishing a brand new faction that is supposed to focus entirely on this type of roleplay and somehow attract more players. SADOC/SADCR from LSRP that so many people seem to be nostalgic towards had the exact same staffing issues and the prison was closed to any sort of faction/inmate conflict bar few hours a day due to there not being enough guards on duty. 
 

On top of that, pretty much the entire legal system we currently have in place (bails, parole) has been built with the jail in mind, and will need to be heavily adjusted to work with prison - That's not gonna happen overnight, and is going to require a lot of effort from a huge number of people to make any functional and narrative sense.

The Jail comes with its own problems and limitations, but the resources required to get the Prison going could be put towards further developing and improving the current system, rather than breaking it apart to create a foundation for something that might end up in the exact same place couple of months/weeks down the line.
 

Hard not to draw GTAW LC parallels with this hype.
 

I don’t really understand where you’re drawing the LC parallel from. And most of what you said was a very pessimistic outlook on the entire situation.

 

Bail and probation duties can be quite easily handed over to SADOC which would give even more roleplay to them and make the overall faction more enticing to budding DOC members who want to RP that kind of thing.

 

LSRP also had a group of dedicated prison guards, some of which were also prison roleplayers who were simply in that position in order to boost prison roleplay for everyone else. And I believe we have those same kinds of people floating around the jail scene already from looking through this thread. 
 

You also made the claim that LSSD struggles to recruit custodial roleplayers and while I agree, I believe that’s an issue relating to LSSD in general and not specifically to wanting to be a prison officer. Being a prison officer I would say is borderline overlooked comparative to the greater prospect of avenues within the Sheriffs Department on offer, hence people are less inclined to go through a lengthy recruitment process to simply be a prison officer. (Does that make sense?)

 

In order to entice people into SADOC, the recruitment process needs to be at least halved and severely less intensive than what the LSSD tends to be. After all, IRL speaking there’s a lot of dumb motherfuckers in the CDCR from what I’ve seen and read, corrupt to the core too. 

[Prophet]

@Nervous were being told by inside sources that little to no progress is being made due to a portion of staff not wanting SADCR….. Is this actually true? That the five hundred players who’ve voted in favor, and extreme favor at that voices don’t matter? How is this remotely fair if so? It’s a clear desire for the entire community. And I ask again, why can’t we use Bolingbrook from GTAW Russia? I know people on the team who are helping with the project; or was whine it was being worked on. And they’ve said zero progress, not even talks have started on this. Can we please get answers here?

[Phantom.]

A discord full of people waiting for an ok to go ahead to continue on with the project, whats going on? @Nervous

Edited January 31, 2023 by Phantom.

[PeterPergo]

Nervous your my homie do this for us, for Phantom...