Restricted faction concept on Nortenos

[Narco]

6 minutes ago, Decker said:

Contrary to what my comments may make you think I'm actually also a big fan of Nortenos as a concept aswell but yeah as you said the reality is that it's really not feasible because not enough people actually understand what being a Norteno is about. Even the best Norteno factions on other communities ended up just falling into the same old portrayal with Nortenos wandering around LS beefing with gangs and using the Northside - Southside beef to justify it.

 

Your average Sureno in SoCal cares more about their beefs with other Surenos & local African American gangs than with their northern counterparts. That's why there's so many Sur gangs in LA that bang red along with a Sureno gang that bangs the number 14.

Very true, there's a lot of Sureno's here up north although the ones from LA don't really associate with them due to the fact they act like Norteno's / Africans nowadays

 

ie: grills in his mouth, braids (usually a Norteno thing to have braids), using the n word and sagging his pants. On top of that there's literally no Norteno's in LA that are actually out there putting in work or banging. Maybe some may have moved out there but they're most likely dropouts at that point as no active northerner is really going to move to LA. 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Narco

[mj2002]

1 hour ago, Narco said:

Then they would get greenlighted by the Mexican Mafia as I'm sure they wouldn't want to pay taxes to them. 

 

Knowing the servers current status, only a few people like @black tarreally understand the concept therefore I 100% agree with you there. The idea is nice, although the harsh reality is that it would just be Sureno rolepaly in red. I mean I'm the biggest fan of the concept as someone that grew up around Northerners here in the bay area although I don't think it would realistically work out on the server. IFM is being smart by restricting this concept specifically as a lot of things wouldn't make sense. Even if the prison gets released, there would barely be anyone really roleplaying it as there's already only a small amount of people roleplaying in TTCF. Also Paleto/Sandy really wouldn't make sense for the faction. 

 

But this goes for any type of faction portrayal right? Either those involved in making an unofficial group (or applying straight for a faction) know how to portray a concept 'right', or they don't. You can make some caveats of course, such as: What do we consider right and how do you define roleplay quality of an existing concept versus a fictional concept. Another caveat is knowing vs. roleplaying, where you can be knowledgeable and create a great application but still provide bad portrayal when you're in game. But overall, these considerations are not unique for Nortenos. It goes for every concept.

 

Restricting concepts in advance doesn't really help anyone in this respect. Bad roleplayers aren't kept away, because they'll conduct their bad roleplay in a different faction instead. If as Nortenos those players aren't seeking out Surenos, then they'll be part of a different group seeking another group out. If you let them, anyway. Good roleplayers that want to portray a particular concept are kept away (to an extent), because what they like to portray won't even be considered.

 

If a group of players can show that their roleplay/portrayal is of quality and isn't so out of place that it ruins other people's immersion, then does it really matter what concept they portray?

Edited August 3, 2022 by mj2002

[CowboyYoda22]

Generally I avoid playing in RP gangs/concepts that mirror RL crime groups, as I just enjoy coming up with an in-universe narrative for why a gang popped up on a specific in game street. But, ultimately I think that the concept would be interesting on the server, and I do wish that players would be allowed to express some more freedom in terms of what they wish to roleplay. Roleplaying should be about having fun and exploring interesting narratives and I think this would be fun. 

 

Sure, there may be people that do little to zero research, there already is a lot of people like that in different criminal types as is, and I think players generally gravitate away from these groups (for the most part). One only has to look at the Unofficial Archives to see just how many groups pop up and go away, so I don't think there would be any harm in seeing a new concept when the same 15 or so gangs keep getting recycled over and over. 

 

The server has rules in place about crime, DMing, ROE, etc. These have proven to work, and IFM closes down troublesome factions (just look at the archives). I think that this would add more RP to the rest of the map, and give players the opportunity to create and have characters in areas that aren't normally played in regularly. You could add a few varrios to these parts of the map, and I think it could add a whole new dynamic, but that's just my 2 cents. 

[Artist]

11 hours ago, Decker said:

Contrary to what my comments may make you think I'm actually also a big fan of Nortenos as a concept aswell but yeah as you said the reality is that it's really not feasible because not enough people actually understand what being a Norteno is about. Even the best Norteno factions on other communities ended up just falling into the same old portrayal with Nortenos wandering around LS beefing with gangs and using the Northside - Southside beef to justify it.

 

Your average Sureno in SoCal cares more about their beefs with other Surenos & local African American gangs than with their northern counterparts. That's why there's so many Sur gangs in LA that bang red along with a Sureno gang that bangs the number 14.

Are you talking about Clanton when you mention a Sureno gang that bangs 14? Clanton does not bang 14 because they do not get along with other Sureno gangs they bang 14 because that was the street name first it was Clanton street then it later got changed to 14th street or 14th place so they added the number that has nothing to do with not getting along with other sureno gangs and some red rag surenos have existed before Nortenos were even a thing. There is nothing to really justify it is highly unlikely and unrealistic for a Norteno to drive down south to LA to shoot at a Sureno and the only time they would really see each other in California is if they were an upstater or if they were incarcerated.

 

12 hours ago, Decker said:

I don't see how being disallowed from roleplaying something that makes no sense affects the game, you can easily just roleplay red rag surenos.

19 hours ago, Decker said:

I don't know why people wanna roleplay Nortenos so bad. They're literally just gonna act like Surenos who wear red like they did on LSRP, along with taking 5 mile drives to LS to beef with random Surenos.

As you said in the quote above that not enough people actually understand what being a Norteno is about how do you know that?  What does roleplaying red rag Surenos have to do with Nortenos other then wearing the same color?  And are you saying that Nortenos and Surenos are the same but Nortenos just wear red or are you saying people are just going to roleplay Nortenos that way? 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Artist

[Narco]

11 hours ago, mj2002 said:

 

But this goes for any type of faction portrayal right? Either those involved in making an unofficial group (or applying straight for a faction) know how to portray a concept 'right', or they don't. You can make some caveats of course, such as: What do we consider right and how do you define roleplay quality of an existing concept versus a fictional concept. Another caveat is knowing vs. roleplaying, where you can be knowledgeable and create a great application but still provide bad portrayal when you're in game. But overall, these considerations are not unique for Nortenos. It goes for every concept.

 

Restricting concepts in advance doesn't really help anyone in this respect. Bad roleplayers aren't kept away, because they'll conduct their bad roleplay in a different faction instead. If as Nortenos those players aren't seeking out Surenos, then they'll be part of a different group seeking another group out. If you let them, anyway. Good roleplayers that want to portray a particular concept are kept away (to an extent), because what they like to portray won't even be considered.

 

If a group of players can show that their roleplay/portrayal is of quality and isn't so out of place that it ruins other people's immersion, then does it really matter what concept they portray?

I mean it does matter because if you're going to roleplay a prominent organization such as the Nuestra Familia, or their foot soldiers the Norteno's, you should have a large understanding of their operations, rules and regulations. I could see Norteno's MAYBE working out, although if they ever decided to allow the Nuestra Familia, I believe IFM shouldn't allow just any average joe to create it or lead it and actually should get a small group of a few people who have excellent logic on the subject as they're literally able to CK any Norteno they want, have control over a large amount of firearms, drugs,  which is a lot of power to have, similar to the Mexican Mafia. This isn't just some small gang that pops up in your neighborhood similar to the bloods and crips as they are very unorganized and all over the place. NORTE - NORTHERN ORGANIZED RAZA TILL ETERNITY. The most organized crime group in California next to the Mexican Mafia. 

[Decker]

On 8/4/2022 at 6:49 AM, Artist said:

Are you talking about Clanton when you mention a Sureno gang that bangs 14? Clanton does not bang 14 because they do not get along with other Sureno gangs they bang 14 because that was the street name first it was Clanton street then it later got changed to 14th street or 14th place so they added the number that has nothing to do with not getting along with other sureno gangs and some red rag surenos have existed before Nortenos were even a thing. There is nothing to really justify it is highly unlikely and unrealistic for a Norteno to drive down south to LA to shoot at a Sureno and the only time they would really see each other in California is if they were an upstater or if they were incarcerated.

The point I'm making is that the only reason eMe is okay with red rag surenos or Clanton 14 for that matter is because of the lack of Nortenos.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Decker

[Barbary]

At the end of the day there's enough backing here that I'd say it's worth giving a shot. But if quality is this big of a fear, I've got a solution.

Have IFM greenlight one Norteno outfit. Have a person or persons who are both knowledgeable and interested be put in charge of the set so they can guide and grow the concept, setting an example for future attempts. If things go well, once IFM feels that the good example has been made, then the restriction can be lifted and the concept can be open to the public.

 

It's a compromise. The people who want NF badly enough get to play NF and build it into an example of gang RP, and the people who are afraid of the concept being abused can be assured that it's being monitored so there's no stupid shit. This also means that the pro-NF crowd has to put their best foot forwards and the anti-NF crowd can prove they're acting in good faith.

[Decker]

3 minutes ago, Barbary said:

At the end of the day there's enough backing here that I'd say it's worth giving a shot. But if quality is this big of a fear, I've got a solution

Sure they can give it a shot but when the inevitable happens and they get bored and start driving down to LS to shoot random Sureno gangs they'd realistically never encounter it's just gonna end with the concept being restricted again in my opinion.

[Xaleya]

3 minutes ago, Barbary said:

At the end of the day there's enough backing here that I'd say it's worth giving a shot. But if quality is this big of a fear, I've got a solution.

Have IFM greenlight one Norteno outfit. Have a person or persons who are both knowledgeable and interested be put in charge of the set so they can guide and grow the concept, setting an example for future attempts. If things go well, once IFM feels that the good example has been made, then the restriction can be lifted and the concept can be open to the public.

 

It's a compromise. The people who want NF badly enough get to play NF and build it into an example of gang RP, and the people who are afraid of the concept being abused can be assured that it's being monitored so there's no stupid shit. This also means that the pro-NF crowd has to put their best foot forwards and the anti-NF crowd can prove they're acting in good faith.

If it's a starter, heavy monitored to avoid the issues discussed here. Why not?

[Barbary]

3 minutes ago, Decker said:

Sure they can give it a shot but when the inevitable happens and they get bored and start driving down to LS to shoot random Sureno gangs they'd realistically never encounter it's just gonna end with the concept being restricted again in my opinion.

 

 

You're welcome to that opinion but you should also be open to being proven wrong.

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Barbary