Improvements to the trucking job.

[Stormy Monday]

Detailed Description

I would like to bring some light to the trucking aspect of the server. I have had an amazing time on GTA:W and one of my favorite things, trucking, I have noticed would need some sort of an overhaul to bring some light to the job that realistically is a key component to a well-developed economy. I have browsed through numerous threads regarding trucking and always saw great input from others, but I would definitely like to see more development as some people genuinely enjoy driving around and delivering for hours at a time. So throughout my experience in the past and comparing it to GTA:W, I have come up with a few ideas I would like to present. This is all up for discussion but I was able to run it by a few people that are involved into trucking and they recommended for me to see where we can go with it. 

 

1. Increasing size for crates within vehicles to make our time worthwhile. 

 

So let's do the math, below will be a list of all the vehicles available, how many deliveries are required, their crate capacity, and the profit per run according to the figures presented the below.

 

Speedo/Burrito (0-25 deliveries) - 5 crates - $675 profit (taxed at 10%).

Boxville (25-100 deliveries) - 8 crates - $1080 (taxed at 10%).

Mule (100-250 deliveries) - 12 crates - $1620 (taxed at 10%).

Benson (250-500 deliveries) - 15 crates - $2025 (taxed at 10%).

Pounder (500+) - 20 crates - $2700 (taxed at 10%).

 

The way the current crates are set up, the base purchase price is $350, the base selling price is $500. Certain businesses accept them for $550-$600 but that is not very common, at least to my time-zone, to find one available is fairly rare. The company I work for takes out a share of 10% profits, which would make you earn a profit of $135 per each crate delivered.

 

Let's do some more math.

 

The most common route that I personally used for the "grind," is Textile City (clothing pickup) to the Vespucci Mask Store. Roughly a 1.8 mile trip each way. Including trips in both directions, obeying traffic laws, properly roleplaying the loading and unloading, as well as occasional traffic at the loading and unloading spots, we're looking at around 8 minutes. For deliveries within the city that are a little bit further from Ocean Docks, we're looking at around 15 minutes. Generally, between 8 - 15 minutes per each delivery. I have myself performed several deliveries that I have timed myself in preparations for this suggestion topic. For the purpose of comprehension and easier understanding, let's put a number somewhere in the middle, which would round up to 12 minutes per delivery. Several other drivers may certainly have times that vary but this topic was made simply from my personal observations.

 

Based on the statistics, it would take an average person:

 

- 1200 minutes (20 hours) to drive a Mule, which as described above would profit around $1620 per delivery.

- 3000 minutes (50 hours) to drive a Benson, which as described above would profit around $2025 per delivery.

- 6000 minutes (100 hours) to drive a Pounder, which as described above would profit around $2700 per delivery.

 

Now, when you continue looking at another aspect are the sizes of these vehicles. When you compare the two, such as comparing a:

 

- Speedo (5 crates) to a Benson (15 crates); or

- Speedo (5 crates) to a Pounder (20 crates),

 

There is a tremendous difference in size between these two vehicles. I think it would be a fair suggestion to increase the size of the major vehicles such as the Benson and Pounder to increase their crate capacity to make it appropriate when it comes to the size of the vehicle and how many crates can fit, as well as the time it takes to obtain the deliveries to have permissions to drive each of those vehicles. 

 

My suggestions would be to increase the caps as the following:

 

Speedo - 5 crates

Boxville - 12 crates

Mule - 18 crates

Benson - 24 crates

Pounder - 30 crates

 

The numbers would be certainly up for a debate and approval by Nervous. But based on the "research" I did crunching numbers and doing timed runs, I think this would be closer to a "sweet spot" of making the income worth the, sometimes unfortunately, a mindless grind. As well as referencing the actual size of these vehicles. And for people skeptical, I ask that you keep in mind that those are hours of active driving & roleplaying, rather than just standing still in a gas station or store as an attendant. Another thing to keep in mind is the speed of these vehicles. Obviously it will take you less time to complete in a delivery in a Speedo than it would be in a Pounder due to its sheer size, speed, and handling, so the numbers presented above can still fluctuate. 

 

 

2. Implement bonuses based on miles traveled during a delivery.

 

Currently the majority of deliveries are performed within the city. Unless you work for a company that has a business partner requesting you to deliver to a specific business or you don't have the full knowledge of where all the businesses and loading spots are, most people will pursue the deliveries that will request crates within the closest location to them, shaving off a substantial amount of time, making deliveries in the county, in most cases not as profitable. What about adding a server script that would implement a bonus of X amount of dollars added per X amount of miles traveled while holding cargo? In real life, contractors and companies pay depending on the distance it takes to transport the load. I think it would be common sense to make the payout of a delivery between LS - Paleto Bay higher than a delivery within the city. For example, additional $250 per .25 of a mile traveled if the delivery is over 2 miles. For example.

 

If I have a delivery from Textile City to to Vespucci Mask store, the route itself is around 1.8 miles one way. The pay could remain the same, hopefully with the first suggestion implemented in this topic. 

 

However, if I have a delivery from Terminal to Sandy Shores which would be around 5 miles, we can do the following:

0-2 miles (base pay), then the additional 3 times could reward an additional $3000 for 3 miles traveled to offset the time it takes to perform the delivery. 

And yes, I am aware there is a pickup spot next to Senora Highway and Route 68 for truckers as well for mechanic shops, but this would be an example. 

 

 

3. Remove the fee on deliveries when you own your vehicle.

 

Although I have not tested it myself, I have asked several others and the answer I received was that if I do deliveries in a vehicle I own, I still get taxed 30% when delivering using my own vehicle, which would be the same amount of me delivering as if I have rented a vehicle from the script. I think there would be a fair amount of people that would also enjoy the aspect of being able to take up further risk such as paying for their own insurance as well as fuel, to be able to have the peace of mind of not having to work for a company but rather be their own boss. In real life, truckers that own their own rigs earn significantly more than truckers working for companies and using fleet vehicles. I would at least expect to be able to keep 100% of the profits I make, and possibly make it even more profitable if I were to purchase a transport vehicle on my own, as well as endure the cost of its maintenance. 

 

 

4. Implement a license system for script-wise deliveries to avoid further droughts.

 

Over the past weeks, myself and many others have come through times where the simply aren't any deliveries available to be made, making the trucker job impossible to do. That would hurt the business, the driver, the player who choses to develop their character as a trucker, and many more. I think there has been a countless amount of times I have went through forum posts and discussions with people voicing their upset with the current design of the system. I think trucking is popular overall, and since the crate prices have changed, I have noticed a surplus of truck drivers. I am not sure why, as to the profit remains the same like it was before (?), yet the price of crates has proportionately increased with its payout. 

 

My suggestion on that would be implementing a license system, here is what I mean by that:

 

In real life (giving an example of the USA), there are trucking license a person must possess before doing legitimate business as a trucker driver. The standard, depending on the state, are CDL licenses. For example, a CDL - A allows you to drive a full truck & trailer, a CDL - B allows you to drive a vehicle such as a Pounder / Benson, and a CDL - C allows you to drive a vehicle such as a Speedo for commercial delivery purposes. These licenses certainly come at a cost, but allow the drivers to invest in themselves creating additional job opportunities. Now, the idea I have had with how it can be implemented in this server would be a possible way of fixing the situation of us not having any deliveries to attend to. 

 

Here is what I would suggest:

 

When you go to the DMV, you can purchase a Driver's license, as well as a Taxi license that are driving related. I think it would be interested to implement a CDL License that could be purchased if certain requirements are met. For example, an individual may be able to purchase a CDL license if they complete 250 trucking deliveries. By doing so, it would allow for the driver to do deliveries for scripted locations, such as power plants, airport, train stations, and other buildings that can be landmarks in game, but aren't necessarily accompanied as a business through the servers' script.  That would include things such as aircraft components that could be delivered to Los Santos Airport, for example. Which would not require any business, but rather the script so it could keep truckers entertained.

 

Now, a concern with that may arise that people would do simply the script deliveries, rather than business deliveries. And that is a valid point, since this is a RP server and not a trucking server after all. So to change that, I think it would be more fair to implement this for people who have already established themselves as truckers (250 / 500+ deliveries) so it would be used for people that are genuinely 'passionate' about trucking from an IC perspective. Another deterrent for abuse would be to put a price tag. In real life, one can get a CDL license (depending on state, circumstances, company scholarship, and more) for around $5000 - $10,000. We could convert it more into currency on GTA:W, giving a price tag for the license for $50,000, which could be somewhat of an investment. Combining the endless hours of grind, as well as money, it would make it available for people that are actual truckers, rather than just people doing it to kill time and get some quick cash. 

 

I have noticed a similar suggestion regarding different license classes in a topic from over a year ago, but I have included it since there has been changes made to it and it would serve a different purpose.

 

 

Relevant Commands/Items

1. Upgrading crate capacity of trucks.

2. We could use a similar script like in Taxi, that for every 60 minutes of active Roleplay we get $4000. We could do it based on miles, OR for every hour of active driving we could get an additional check.

3. Remove the 30% fee from delivering in your personal vehicle.

4. Implement a license added ad the licensing office and add server-scripted suppliers & buyers for crates. 

 

How will it benefit the server?

I think trucking is an area that provides people joy as well as a very exciting and immersive experience on roleplay servers. From trucking on several servers myself, I can attest to that and I know many others will do. Trucking has been a hot topic for a while and I think it would be wonderful to implement some major changes to it by making it more immersive and more worthwhile rather than just a grind.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Maximus.

[RedRover]

tl;dr - Trucking needs a major rework. The bandaid solution (while appreciated) to enable non-player owned businesses to request crates didn't make much of a dent. Every day the list gets cleared and trucking companies are left completely dumbfounded on what to do. I think a lot of the points made here by the OP might help towards a foundation for a rework, which is absolutely necessary at this point. Otherwise we're going to keep going through this cycle of:

Not enough drivers, too many crates to deliver. Over correct. Now it's too many drivers, not enough crates to deliver. Over correct. Rinse and repeat. We're in the second phase now that will inevitably lead to another driver drought to start the cycle over again.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Brofessor

[Stormy Monday]

4 minutes ago, Brofessor said:

tl;dr - Trucking needs a major rework. The bandaid solution (while appreciated) to enable non-player owned businesses to request crates didn't make much of a dent. Every day the list gets cleared and trucking companies are left completely dumbfounded on what to do. I think a lot of the points made here by the OP might help towards a foundation for a rework, which is absolutely necessary at this point. 

 

Agreed! And I would like to add that what has been implemented by Nervous regarding the G & Y when it comes to /startshipment, as well as loading & unloading is amazing and greatly appreciated. Thank you for responding.

[Noobie]

Something has to be done for sure. The delivery list gets cleared every single day. Only small trucks can do most of the deliveries otherwise the list is cleared within an hour. I hope when this is reviewed a new system will be implied and not just imply another "workaround". It would be a great opportunity to get some truckers together with ideas and a developer on what is possible and what isn't.

 

As for the suggestion in this thread:

1.) IC it would make sense, but I think this is just to balance the price/profit/delivered boxes/... Might be worth it when trucking is completely reviewed.

2.) Truckers are well payed right now(for sure when you reach the benson/pounder). I think an added paygrade for those who RP around trucking would be great. Other roles like HR/supervisors/client service/... arent payed scriptwise. It's nearly impossible for a good working trucking business to make profit. A lot of people that start roleplaying on this server start as truckers. In this hiring process/ridealong a lot of basic commands are teached to them. 

3.) I am not a fan of this at all. This would totally undermine the fact of owning a trucking business.

4.) For the license, this might be a good idea but has to make sense in the bigger picture of trucking. Some sort of development has to be done to become a pounder driver.

 

Hope this will be reviewed or picked up by a developer, a open discussion on what is possible and what isnt would be great. 

[Triple Seven]

Player businesses should always be prioritized of course, but delivery points for all businesses (and even non-existing and/or inactive ones) can just be given a randomizer and be added to the list when the player businesses are stocked.

 

The RPG leveling system has to go, leveling is a horrible mechanic in a roleplay server. It ensures people cannot roleplay what they want (ex. hardened trucker that worked all over the country before hitting San Andreas. They get here and have to drive a van).

 

If there are concerns about players' driving, either enforce a proper standard for it, or make sure someone's account has enough hours for them to know how to roleplay so they can be properly dealt with when they don't*.

 

The lack of trailer sync is an extremely big issue as well for this avenue of roleplay, and with the current issues in rage I don't see it changing anytime soon, but it's instrumental for trucking portrayal.

 

The system as it was put in place, doesn't seem to work anymore, if it ever really did, there were always ups and downs on several fronts.

 

* I'm willing to bet most traffic incidents on the server stem from the driving not being portrayed realistically. I don't think there's any player (including myself) that never speeds unrealistic amounts, it's in part an issue with the game itself, the entire handling model is just bad, which could be addressed but would require a lot of development work and is likely not something that will ever be done.

[Cosmin]

1. I can agree with that mostly, especially that you got to do a lot of deliveries before you can profit from these changes, if they'll happen.

2. Not really necessary, as a trucker I can say I'm paid quite well, it's a thin line between breaking everything here.

3. I disagree with this for the same reason stated by @JochenDeath.

4. That sounds fine imo, though probably more knowledgeable people can give their opinion on this.

[Pegassi]

All of the problems stated in the original post are legitimate and the solutions look pretty promising, however there's one minor problem related to trucking orders and which i feel like talking about.

Sometimes, businesses orders crates for a ridiculous amount (or sometimes a tiny amount), making the truckers buying loads of crates for delivery only to find out that the businesses are no longer in need of crates, thus wasting the money of truckers. Now this is alright when it comes to van drivers like Speedo or Burrito, but becomes a problem for truck drivers like Mule, Bensons and Pounders because uh, what you're going to do with those tons of crates eh? 

So i wanna suggest scripting a system that locks the orders the truckers accept and businesses could not undo it, or maybe show the status of the orders accepted by the truckers in real time so that the businesses could message them when or when not to deliver goods.

Now honestly, i think we all know that these suggestion are mere words only and probably none of it is going to get implemented anytime soon. With the trucking jobs dwindling fast like never before, this particular problem literally screws up a trucker's grind and they mostly end up ragequitting or wait for the crate orders for a long period of time (afk).

 

So yeah there you go, take it for what it's worth.

Have a good one.   

[ScarletRose]

1 hour ago, Pegassi said:

All of the problems stated in the original post are legitimate and the solutions look pretty promising, however there's one minor problem related to trucking orders and which i feel like talking about.

Sometimes, businesses orders crates for a ridiculous amount (or sometimes a tiny amount), making the truckers buying loads of crates for delivery only to find out that the businesses are no longer in need of crates, thus wasting the money of truckers. Now this is alright when it comes to van drivers like Speedo or Burrito, but becomes a problem for truck drivers like Mule, Bensons and Pounders because uh, what you're going to do with those tons of crates eh? 

 

You can just /startshipment again and deliver the crates to another business that needs them. I did that all the time back last year when my character was an active trucker. If you buy 15 vehicle part crates for example, and you deliver to an auto shop that only has 5 orders left, you can simply /startshift again and choose another auto shop to deliver the rest of the crates to. As long as the business uses the same type of crates, you can deliver the same batch of crates to multiple businesses. As long as there's another business accepting the same crates, you can deliver the extra crates and no money will be wasted.

 

[Pegassi]

53 minutes ago, ScarletRose said:

You can just /startshipment again and deliver the crates to another business that needs them. I did that all the time back last year when my character was an active trucker. If you buy 15 vehicle part crates for example, and you deliver to an auto shop that only has 5 orders left, you can simply /startshift again and choose another auto shop to deliver the rest of the crates to. As long as the business uses the same type of crates, you can deliver the same batch of crates to multiple businesses. As long as there's another business accepting the same crates, you can deliver the extra crates and no money will be wasted.

 

You're right, but this is not applicable when you have very limited businesses open, or no businesses open at all. Most of the time the delivery businesses are very, VERY limited (barely 2-3 during low playercount) and even in this situation, they order like 10 crates that vanishes very quickly the moment someone heads to the delivery point (hence, losing crates since no other type of business wants them). I've literally had to dispose of the unwanted business crates, only to load another type of crates in the truck for another business that's available.

Speaking of last year, well it was last year you know, back when there plenty of orders, now there's barely any.

Trucker life sucks now tbh...

[KriCorvo]

Due to the "changes" made, we've just received some bad news regarding the company because our staff aren't active enough. 

 

Almost as though they don't have a job to do and then they penalise the people within the profession for not doing their jobs? Make it make sense.  🤔

 

I'm sorry but this is fucking ridiculous that we've now received what we have as a company because of a lack of activity when there's nothing to do.

This server thrives on wanting to be as realistic as possible but has gotten rid of the most reliable jobs on this Earth because there's fuck all to do in the server. Would UPS, Amazon, FedEx, DHL, etc run out of work? Absolutely fucking not they wouldn't. 

I'm passed being nice about it now. Sort it out. 

You want this server to be realistic, make it realistic, give us some actual fucking work to do.

Edited May 2, 2022 by KriCorvo