CIM for CCTV Cameras instead of actual mapping.

[Vash Baldeus]

I started noticing the following:

 

While the rules are clearly stating it has to be physically mapped there to be counted as such.

Spoiler

CCTV cameras have to be mapped in before they are considered present. Attempting to claim a camera exists when there is no item there is powergaming. OOC recordings can be used as the footage pulled from CCTV cameras, in the absence of OOC recording, players are able to challenge CCTV footage if they believe the recording party may have forgotten or falsified details.

 

• If desync is suspected, the contesting party may provide a video of their own to look for any inconsistencies or consult a staff member to decide. This may be looked over if the desync is clear within the original recording provided. 

 

• Government building as well as server-owned stores (e.g gas stations, 24/7s, clothing stores) all have cameras by default, which law enforcement agencies have the capacity of acquiring. 
   
• When using OOC footage, players are expected to keep in mind which direction the cameras are pointing. "Dome cameras" are best specified in /stashinfo, otherwise an admin will have to decide on their own. 
   
• All state agencies and Government vehicles have dashcams. OOC recording rules apply to dashcam.

Based on this CIM I can place a camera anywhere I want without mapping outside my business. Either Security companies that supply such a service should gain access to mapping CCTV objects similar to what admins do but only limit it to CCTV objects outside. Moreover if allowing them to do so make sure they roleplay the installation of those. Admins of course would be able to remove those if they are placed in a non realistic location or abused.

 

Otherwise this is a clear BREACH of rules done by more than just 1 players.

[Illusory]

5 minutes ago, Vash Baldeus said:

I started noticing the following:

 

While the rules are clearly stating it has to be physically mapped there to be counted as such.

  Reveal hidden contents

CCTV cameras have to be mapped in before they are considered present. Attempting to claim a camera exists when there is no item there is powergaming. OOC recordings can be used as the footage pulled from CCTV cameras, in the absence of OOC recording, players are able to challenge CCTV footage if they believe the recording party may have forgotten or falsified details.

 

• If desync is suspected, the contesting party may provide a video of their own to look for any inconsistencies or consult a staff member to decide. This may be looked over if the desync is clear within the original recording provided. 

 

• Government building as well as server-owned stores (e.g gas stations, 24/7s, clothing stores) all have cameras by default, which law enforcement agencies have the capacity of acquiring. 
   
• When using OOC footage, players are expected to keep in mind which direction the cameras are pointing. "Dome cameras" are best specified in /stashinfo, otherwise an admin will have to decide on their own. 
   
• All state agencies and Government vehicles have dashcams. OOC recording rules apply to dashcam.

Based on this CIM I can place a camera anywhere I want without mapping outside my business. Either Security companies that supply such a service should gain access to mapping CCTV objects similar to what admins do but only limit it to CCTV objects outside. Moreover if allowing them to do so make sure they roleplay the installation of those. Admins of course would be able to remove those if they are placed in a non realistic location or abused.

 

Otherwise this is a clear BREACH of rules done by more than just 1 players.

 

It'd take me a minute to find but AFAIK there was a ruling a little while ago where you were allowed to place CIMs stating where the cameras would be. As much as I'd like to actually have the items outside my house it would end up costing me almost $500/year for cameras outside my house and frankly that isn't in the cards for me. From somebody who did have cameras around their house for a month or two in the past year I can also confirm that the people the cameras were put up to prevent just ignore them outright anyway.

[Vash Baldeus]

1 minute ago, Sush said:

 

It'd take me a minute to find but AFAIK there was a ruling a little while ago where you were allowed to place CIMs stating where the cameras would be. As much as I'd like to actually have the items outside my house it would end up costing me almost $500/year for cameras outside my house and frankly that isn't in the cards for me. From somebody who did have cameras around their house for a month or two in the past year I can also confirm that the people the cameras were put up to prevent just ignore them outright anyway.

Fact is, placing CIM's is against the rules themselves. And I agree donating for platinum is expensive for the year. Hence I suggested Security firms that provide such a service should be allowed to MAP those in place with proper roleplay, permanently or as long as the client is paying.

[Smith]

The entire CCTV camera thing needs re-visited and re-worked entirely. As it stands now there's three (3) types of CCTVs being used in GTAW. 

 

1. Player owned businesses that role play (+script) having the CCTV camera in/outside their place of business.

2. Default GTA V modeled cameras around businesses and other areas.

3. Server owned businesses that DO NOT have modeled CCTV cameras that are to be role played.

 

As a Detective in the LSSD, cameras are the life blood to my investigations yet it's like pulling teeth to a) find if there are cameras in a certain area and to contact the business owner and hope they are helpful in providing the information I need, b) track down an admin to confirm if the cameras are there and let them tell me what the camera would see. It can take days or weeks to either get a hold of the business owner or an admin. 

 

On top of that you have businesses that for some unexplainable reason refuse to have cameras in their place of business in 2021 when we're supposed to be role playing in one of the most surveilled countries bar the United Kingdom/China. Especially with how high the crime rate is in LS but "i'm a gangster/mobster/biker, we don't use cctv."

 

What needs to happen is when you register a business, you provide the coords/details and pictures of each camera, what their view would be so that it's on record for all to see so there's no ambiguity. This happened on another server and was a perfect compromise as everyone was happy. The only problem is that half the businesses in LS aren't even registered and that's the fault of CITY Government unfortunately. 

 

As for the actual Gruppe-6 CCTV, again, as long as it's been role played and documented some place I don't think it should be an issue. I also would like to see places where they have "CCTV operated area" signs plastered on walls be allowed to role play having valid cameras there.

 

Ideally I'd like to see a map of all CCTV cameras in the area to prevent any confusion and any potential issues arising in the future. If an admin wants to reach out, I'd be happy to help with that.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Smith

[Benelli]

it's funny cause you MUST walk right under the "camera" to even find out there's a camera.

[ThatDutchPerson]

Rules clearly state that placing a simple /cim to indicate theres a camera is a breach of the rules. CCTV needs to by mapped, period.

However, I do agree it might have been put there because the camera isnt there if the player that owns it is offline.

[i dont wanna od in LA]

I've checked in with admins a couple days ago because I was attempting to rob a business and apparently this is invalid and cannot be roleplayed as if there were actual CCTVs there.

[Wuhtah]

1 hour ago, Vash Baldeus said:

Fact is, placing CIM's is against the rules themselves. And I agree donating for platinum is expensive for the year. Hence I suggested Security firms that provide such a service should be allowed to MAP those in place with proper roleplay, permanently or as long as the client is paying.

 

Do you mean placing CIMs without placing cameras is against the rules? Because in all fairness, I believe placing cameras and then placing CIMs near the camera or I guess in /stashinfo would be great for LSSD members. If CIMs were placed, then the LSSD can get the information needed from what specific camera, making it easier on the handling admin to check that area out. 

 

1 hour ago, Sush said:

 

It'd take me a minute to find but AFAIK there was a ruling a little while ago where you were allowed to place CIMs stating where the cameras would be. As much as I'd like to actually have the items outside my house it would end up costing me almost $500/year for cameras outside my house and frankly that isn't in the cards for me. From somebody who did have cameras around their house for a month or two in the past year I can also confirm that the people the cameras were put up to prevent just ignore them outright anyway.

 

As for this, I don't know if you can or not (can't hurt to try), but you could ask an admin (make sure it's a business, not a residential property as in an apartment/house) if they could place a permanent CIM down stating that there is CCTV present on the lot. But again ~ make sure outside cameras are mapped in. I forgot that you need the donation status in order to place it outside in the first place, my bad.

 

41 minutes ago, Smith said:

The entire CCTV camera thing needs re-visited and re-worked entirely. As it stands now there's three (3) times of CCTVs being used in GTAW. 

 

1. Player owned businesses that role play (+script) having the CCTV camera in/outside their place of business.

2. Default GTA V modeled cameras around businesses and other areas.

3. Server owned businesses that DO NOT have modeled CCTV cameras that are to be role played.

 

As a Detective in the LSSD, cameras are the life blood to my investigations yet it's like pulling teeth to a) find if there are cameras in a certain area and to contact the business owner and hope they are helpful in providing the information I need, b) track down an admin to confirm if the cameras are there and let them tell me what the camera would see. It can take days or weeks to either get a hold of the business owner or an admin. 

 

On top of that you have businesses that for some unexplainable reason refuse to have cameras in their place of business in 2021 when we're supposed to be role playing in one of the most surveilled countries bar the United Kingdom/China. Especially with how high the crime rate is in LS but "i'm a gangster/mobster/biker, we don't use cctv."

 

What needs to happen is when you register a business, you provide the coords/details and pictures of each camera, what their view would be so that it's on record for all to see so there's no ambiguity. This happened on another server and was a perfect compromise as everyone was happy. The only problem is that half the businesses in LS aren't even registered and that's the fault of CITY Government unfortunately. 

 

As for the actual Gruppe-6 CCTV, again, as long as it's been role played and documented some place I don't think it should be an issue. I also would like to see places where they have "CCTV operated area" signs plastered on walls be allowed to role play having valid cameras there.

 

Ideally I'd like to see a map of all CCTV cameras in the area to prevent any confusion and any potential issues arising in the future. If an admin wants to reach out, I'd be happy to help with that.

 

This has a lot of helpful suggestions! It is difficult to get the information needed for a CCTV report, and I apologize that it is a hassle for you and for others! I believe there are some game suggestions on how to rework the CCTV - but I don't believe any are sticking and getting forwarded. I will double check though! 

 

I understand that CCTV's are one of the main sources of getting proof into a case, and that truly slacks on roleplay when you have to wait a week or so to track down an admin. I will also bring this up, and perhaps we can make it easier on the handling admins.

 

I agree with you about the CCTV, the business owners SHOULD put where the CCTV is located in the /stashinfo (especially now that it is more easy to use), that way you do not need to track down the business owner + an admin, because you should be able to locate exactly where the CCTVs are, so when a manager/business employee who has been shown where the cameras are and how to show LSSD where the CCTV footage is kept, it will be easier as they can hopefully /stashinfo or an admin could come and do it.

 

I will definitely bring this thread up to the staff team because we could get a lot of potential feedback and improvements on how to take this forward if they need more!

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Wuhtah

[ThatDutchPerson]

Just now, i dont wanna od in LA said:

I've checked in with admins a couple days ago because I was attempting to rob a business and apparently this is invalid and cannot be roleplayed as if there were actual CCTVs there.

Understandable, but what if it is actually mapped, but simply not loaded in because the player hasn't been online?

Its kind of unrealistic to think CCTV goes off when the owner isn't around.

[Nox]

34 minutes ago, Smith said:

The entire CCTV camera thing needs re-visited and re-worked entirely.

 

I understand GTA:W needs to be funded and all that, but when owning a business you usually need to have at least gold. Wanting CCTV outside, you'd need to buy those daily packs or whatever, or get platinum. Find it a bit frustrating personally. I'm not against donating myself, and the upkeep of the server is important, be a rivision of this rule would be really, really nice.