Lengthen Prison Sentences [G]

[RufioCas]

2 hours ago, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

What? People get slapped on the wrist for basically everything that isn't a CK. You literally get out 3 times faster for logging in and RPing in jail. And people still don't do it. But they sure come to the forums to complain there ain't nothing to do in jail and it's dead. That's the best joke.

Have you ever considered the possibility of people logging out simply because there’s nothing to do in jail? People walk around a little bit, find out there’s absolutely nothing to do, and they log off to play on other characters. Because, guess what? None of us log in to stare at our screens, and roleplay on our own. It’s a vicious cycle. People log out because there’s nothing to do, and there’s nothing to do because people log out. Believe it or not, increasing the length of jail sentences will do nothing to solve the problem. If anything, it’ll contribute to the death of an already dying illegal rp scene with a lot of illegal rpers slowly either leaving the server or joining PD/SD. It’s rather comical for all of you to say illegal rpers have it easy. It proves some of the people on this thread don’t even know what’s happening at all. Yet, they’re here commenting on the state of something they’re absolutely clueless about. If I owned a simple store, I’d get $20k per opening. If I open my store every day, I’d get $140k a WEEK. That’s something us, illegal rpers, can only dream of unless we are at the top of the illegal rp scene. Most of us are in this for the roleplay, we could also own stores and drive around in super expensive cars, but where’s the fun in that? Most of my illegal characters are almost bankrupt, and we all run out of ammo mid shootouts. Is that what you call “playing the game on easy mode”? If we’re arguing realism here, there’s A LOT OF things that have to be adjusted on the legal rp side of things. Cops almost never CK. It’s almost pointless to touch any cop because you’ll get locked up(sometimes even CK’d), and most of the time the cop won’t roleplay the effect at all. I could continue the list, but I believe I’ve said everything I wanted to say. Jail RP is not great, and it needs a lot of changes. We can agree on that. However, this ain’t it. Yall need to ditch the mentality of trying to punish people OOC’ly by taking their fun away for their IC actions.

Edited January 16, 2021 by RufioCas

[Cypher]

59 minutes ago, RufioCas said:

Have you ever considered the possibility of people logging out simply because there’s nothing to do in jail?

What about forcing full IC sentences with no offline-ticking, but make the sentences shorter? Would bring a higher amount of people in jail considering everyone has to be in jail at that point. Sure the sentences are shorter but at the same time, it's all spent in jail rather than logging off. At that point, there would be little excuse to AFK and/or complain about people not being there, right? Also kind of makes people think twice considering they can't just log off to serve their time. Don't bash me please 🤣 Just trying to talk through a possible option.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Cypher

[RufioCas]

4 minutes ago, Cypher said:

What about forcing full IC sentences with no offline-ticking, but make the sentences shorter? Would bring a higher amount of people in jail considering everyone has to be in jail at that point. Sure the sentences are shorter but at the same time, it's all spent in jail rather than logging off. At that point, there would be little excuse to AFK and/or complain about people not being there, right? Also kind of makes people think twice considering they can't just log off to serve their time. Don't bash me please 🤣 Just trying to talk through a possible option.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash anybody. It's just weird that all these people ranting about the state of jail rp have never done it themselves. However, I do agree with your suggestion. I could definitely live with no offline-ticking.

[MostCreative]

No, just no. This will not improve prison role-play or in-character consequences if anything it'll demotivate people.

 

Sentences are fine at the current state. They aren't too long or short, making them perfectly in the middle. As people have also mentioned, the server is heavily legal sided, with this change this would further tip it more towards that.

[Pie]

5 hours ago, Craazy said:

Agreed with @RufioCas. Server is way too legal sided.

 

Criminals make 0 money.

 

Why rob someone and get a minimum sentence of 30 days in prison when you'll just get maximum 5k and maybe a pistol...

Meanwhile, if you just buy a business that people will enter, you'll make $20,000 daily even if your business is garbage... just as long as people enter it.

 

Then you got the chopping cars, which could be profitable to an illegal RPer but really isn't worth it because you'd have to know where to chop cars, someone to chop said cars, a place to chop said cars, and a place to sell what you got from chopping cars...

 

Server is extremely legal sided. Jail sentences are already too long.

People already shoot at cops to get PKed and avoid jail time (and yes some get CKed, but even then it's better to get CKed than to wait 40 days on a court case to find out you just hit 30 points and you're getting life and have to name change or get a new character anyway).

 

On top of all that, you got soooo many cops in the poor areas that people actually go out of their way into the county or Vinewood to rob/steal/scam because otherwise, 5 cop cars will respond when you get pulled over for speeding... now imagine how many cops are coming if you've a APB on you and you just got spotted.

 

Most illegal factions I know do not make their money illegally. You can get 2 days in jail for just having drugs to sell, but the majority of the time, you won't be able to sell these drugs for a profit... You'll have to lower your price because the demand is way way lower than the supply.

 

Criminals RP criminals for FUN, not to "WIN"... cause if we wanted to make money, we'd just buy a business and advertise it to holy hell.

Legal RP makes 50 times more money than illegal RP, unless you're at the very top of the illegal RP scene as a gun/drug supplier... then maybe the money might be even.

 

There is lots of crime in the city, and I agree, it's a bit too much but the solution is simply NOT harsher jailtimes and sentences. Me personally? I think the solution would be to make a system where criminals can actually make money selling their drugs at street price, without having to rely on the low player base that actually buys drugs for personal use.

 

A system like that could even possibly prevent looting because right now people don't mind sticking around and getting a 15 minute ajail for looting their friend, but if they could make money just as easily as legal RPers... they definitely wouldn't risk regular or admin jail time to loot.

 

-1 from me. Increase jail times and there won't be much petty crime anymore. Without petty crimes, cops are gonna lose motivation because let's face it... why else are they responding 5 cars to a pull over? They're bored, they want action. Then you'll get cops leaving, criminals will start abusing the lack of cops (as they already do in certain timezones), and then you'll see just how legal sided everything was before.

 

(JUST LIKE @RufioCas SAID ABOVE)

This. Couldn't have said it better myself. 

[friendlyman]

On 1/15/2021 at 7:49 PM, Smilesville said:

while people just in it for the lite-RP quick script cash will be frustrated by the fact that they can't just get out in a few days any more and seek something else out.

Nobody is in illegal RP for the quick script cash. Illegal RP will make you ZERO money (unless you have supplier).

 

In general, this suggestion just feels out of touch with the current illegal RP scene and prison RP scene. Prison sentences are fine at the moment imo.

[Ted]

If we want the prison to be populated, force prisoners to serve their sentence in game rather than waiting for it to be up.

[kaneki1king]

No

[Smilesville]

6 hours ago, Cypher said:

What about forcing full IC sentences with no offline-ticking, but make the sentences shorter? Would bring a higher amount of people in jail considering everyone has to be in jail at that point. Sure the sentences are shorter but at the same time, it's all spent in jail rather than logging off. At that point, there would be little excuse to AFK and/or complain about people not being there, right? Also kind of makes people think twice considering they can't just log off to serve their time. Don't bash me please 🤣 Just trying to talk through a possible option.

I'd given this some serious thought, but it's a fairly substantial departure from the realistic aspect of how a prison sentence works - and the idea is to punish the character, not necessarily the player. If someone doesn't want to RP their stay at a prison, that's alright with me - but what I'm not okay with is the current escape of consequences that four days for armed robbery effectively is. Whether someone chooses to take advantage of the time their character is in prison is up to them.

 

Might I suggest also that the RP quality of prison life won't increase all that much if you force people to participate who would rather simply not log onto the character for thirty days rather than RP in a different environment. Compelled RP tends to bring out the worst in people.
 

15 hours ago, RufioCas said:

No. The server’s already heavily legal sided. I can’t even understand the mentality behind supporting longer sentences. They’re already A LOT longer than what people are used to.

Law enforcement won’t have “motivation” by locking people up longer. This is a roleplay server. If all they worry about is locking people up, they might want to consider playing a cops and robbers server where all they have to worry about is locking people up. You won’t save prison/jail rp by making longer sentences. You need decent prison/jail gangs that are vastly active. They also need to know what they’re doing. You’ll have an active jail if you have more than 1 active prison gang.

The idea that "the server is already heavily legal sided" could only ever come from someone who exclusively roleplays criminal elements.

How else do you explain the constant and systemic issues surrounding quick crimes of opportunity like robberies? The report section of the forums is half populated by situations devolving from low RP robberies. How do you expect to have enough individuals RPing in a prison to have multiple prison gangs if they're all let out in a matter of days and the RP has no chance to develop?

I don't see any better ideas to support prison culture, and doing nothing is obviously the incorrect answer.

 

15 hours ago, RufioCas said:

As for the crime being rampant on the server argument, crime is rampant in LA too. Is it as bloody as it is on GTAW? No. One thing you all seem to have forgotten is the fact that it’s a game at the end of the day. It’ll be boring for illegal roleplayers(specifically street gangs) if the slightest thing they do lands them in jail for a month. This, in return, will kill most of the roleplay cops get in the server. This, in return, will kill their motivation. There are a lot of ways to improve jail roleplay, but this ain’t it. No one is playing the server to be locked up for a month lmfao

 

have you even done illegal roleplay if you think the equation is heavily tilted towards “illegal rpers” and have u ever heard of the point system?

The murder rate in Los Santos is already six times that of Venezuela, if we assume only CK's count as murders and only one CK takes place per day and that the population of the server is 100,000 - we all know the actual rate is far higher, but that comparison makes my point sufficiently enough.

 

I'm sympathetic to the argument that fun needs to be a factor, but an armed robbery or a murder should not be defined as "the slightest thing they do." The problem is we don't treat these events with any gravity - and with how often they take place, why would they? Do you think we'd have near the problem we do with fear RP if robberies weren't an everyday occurrence in every part of the city not covered by a safe zone rule?

 

Illegal RPers are a little too motivated to get into shootouts at the slightest provocation - I think they could stand to lose a little more motivation on that front, or at very least plan their illegal activities in a more careful manner so as not to get caught.

 

That's what criminals in real life do, after all.

 

7 hours ago, RufioCas said:

Have you ever considered the possibility of people logging out simply because there’s nothing to do in jail? People walk around a little bit, find out there’s absolutely nothing to do, and they log off to play on other characters. Because, guess what? None of us log in to stare at our screens, and roleplay on our own.

Sounds like a problem that could be solved with a higher prison population - so either more arrests need to be made, or prison sentences need to be longer. Forcing people into the RP who flatly refuse to engage in it (a la the % online suggestion) will only deteriorate the quality of play, and I'd much rather insulate prison RP from the clusterfuck that would turn into.

 

4 hours ago, friendlyman said:

Nobody is in illegal RP for the quick script cash. Illegal RP will make you ZERO money (unless you have supplier).

 

In general, this suggestion just feels out of touch with the current illegal RP scene and prison RP scene. Prison sentences are fine at the moment imo.

There is no other explanation for the rote, borderline meta game that robberies have become on the server. In a matter of ten minutes or so, you have a decent shot of obtaining $5,000 and a firearm along with some other odds and ends that could be valuable. Compare this to the hour or two that businesses must remain open in order to obtain the $20,000 that must then be distributed amongst employees, and the more lucrative of the two is obvious.

[RufioCas]

35 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

I'd given this some serious thought, but it's a fairly substantial departure from the realistic aspect of how a prison sentence works - and the idea is to punish the character, not necessarily the player. If someone doesn't want to RP their stay at a prison, that's alright with me - but what I'm not okay with is the current escape of consequences that four days for armed robbery effectively is. Whether someone chooses to take advantage of the time their character is in prison is up to them.

Sorry but what? So, you're all for people not RP'ing out their sentences, and you see increasing the length of sentences as a way to increase the roleplay in jail? You've never roleplayed an illegal in a server that has a functioning jail, have you? Care to explain why LSRP had amazing prison gangs even though you'd get jailed for 5 hours? You also realize you HAVE THE OPTION to stay in jail if you wish even if you complete your sentence, right?

35 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

 

Might I suggest also that the RP quality of prison life won't increase all that much if you force people to participate who would rather simply not log onto the character for thirty days rather than RP in a different environment. Compelled RP tends to bring out the worst in people.

Might I suggest also that the RP quality of prison won't increase all that much if you force people's character to sit in jail for a MONTH? You're talking about compelled RP while you're forcing people to sit in jail for a month, lol.

 

35 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

The idea that "the server is already heavily legal sided" could only ever come from someone who exclusively roleplays criminal elements.

How else do you explain the constant and systemic issues surrounding quick crimes of opportunity like robberies? The report section of the forums is half populated by situations devolving from low RP robberies. How do you expect to have enough individuals RPing in a prison to have multiple prison gangs if they're all let out in a matter of days and the RP has no chance to develop?

Bold of you to assume I exclusively roleplay illegal elements considering I had been a part of SD for the longest time, I'm currently a part of PD, and I had been in PD for 2 years, on and off. I was a part of PD's DB for months, and I was a part of SD DB for a while as well. Don't throw accusations, you clearly don't know what you're talking about, and people are trying to tell you how it works.

 

Care to elaborate what "constant, and systemic issues" you're talking about? Report section is barely systemic. What a bunch of people who don't roleplay in illegal factions do does NOT reflect the entirety of the illegal roleplay community. Do you know how factions work, and are established? You don't develop a prison gang in a week, lol.

 

35 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

The murder rate in Los Santos is already six times that of Venezuela, if we assume only CK's count as murders and only one CK takes place per day and that the population of the server is 100,000 - we all know the actual rate is far higher, but that comparison makes my point sufficiently enough.

 

I'm sympathetic to the argument that fun needs to be a factor, but an armed robbery or a murder should not be defined as "the slightest thing they do." The problem is we don't treat these events with any gravity - and with how often they take place, why would they? Do you think we'd have near the problem we do with fear RP if robberies weren't an everyday occurrence in every part of the city not covered by a safe zone rule?

Where do you take your stats from, and how do you know all the CK's are murders? Your entire argument is based off assumptions, and I can't even take you serious at this point.

 

No, you aren't. You are suggesting people stay in jail for a full month because of what's supposed to be a game. How do you know these events aren't treated with gravity? There's literally a point system, look it up.  It's one thing to be robbed because you're walking down a dark alley, and it's whole another for an unrealistic robbery to occur. The latter is when server rules are broken. IC laws aren't supposed to police the server. And the first is when you, as a character, have fucked up.

35 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

Illegal RPers are a little too motivated to get into shootouts at the slightest provocation - I think they could stand to lose a little more motivation on that front, or at very least plan their illegal activities in a more careful manner so as not to get caught.

 

That's what criminals in real life do, after all.

Here you go again, generalizing all the illegal RPers because you've seen a group or two getting into shootouts as what YOU deem as the "slightest provocation".

 

No, it's not. It's what smart criminals do. Smart criminals != all the criminals. Not everyone has to roleplay a smart criminal.

 

35 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

Sounds like a problem that could be solved with a higher prison population - so either more arrests need to be made, or prison sentences need to be longer. Forcing people into the RP who flatly refuse to engage in it (a la the % online suggestion) will only deteriorate the quality of play, and I'd much rather insulate prison RP from the clusterfuck that would turn into.

 

There is no other explanation for the rote, borderline meta game that robberies have become on the server. In a matter of ten minutes or so, you have a decent shot of obtaining $5,000 and a firearm along with some other odds and ends that could be valuable. Compare this to the hour or two that businesses must remain open in order to obtain the $20,000 that must then be distributed amongst employees, and the more lucrative of the two is obvious.

I'm sorry but I simply can't see you suggesting anything better. You're suggesting a month long sentence. No one is going to log in. If you force people to sit out their month-long sentence? They'll be demotivated, and they'll leave the server or move onto different, better things.

 

Again, server laws aren't supposed to police the server. Your mentality is absurd. You can't even sit here, and try to explain how illegal roleplayers get more money to someone that does both. My legal character has almost 1m in assets whereas my illegal character barely has 120k.

Edited January 17, 2021 by RufioCas