Some changes for people who does extorting RP

[Ink]

6 hours ago, shiroq said:

iT dOesNt ExIsT iN 2o2o

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/news/police-gang-extortion-attempt-led-to-los-angeles-market-shootout/

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200803005847/en/AHF-Sues-Los-Angeles-Stop-Luxury-Developments

https://mynewsla.com/crime/2020/01/08/man-pleads-guilty-in-l-a-to-250k-online-extortion-scheme/

https://abc7.com/multiple-victims-reported-in-shooting-at-north-hollywood-grocery-store/5653490/

https://www.gazettenet.com/Michael-Avenatti-is-convicted-of-trying-to-extort-Nike-32731316

someone even tried to extort nike, but hey it doesn't happen in 2020

https://www.dailybreeze.com/2019/09/20/two-day-search-for-palos-verdes-estates-extortion-suspect-leads-to-arrest/

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-developer-racketeering-lawsuit-20190110-story.html

 

?

 

I appreciate you linking more evidence of why extortion RP on our server is unrealistic. You realize every single one of these extortion attempts ends with a police response and an arrest? The only one that doesn't was two of the articles you linked talking about the actual pants-on-head morons who tried to extort a shop for $100,000 and actually got their asses shot up by the business owner and as of the article's posting were being hunted by the police. ?

 

The Nike extortion attempt was a dumb ass television lawyer trying to shake them down for $25,000,000. Even though he's famous, could afford fantastic lawyers, and is himself a lawyer his dumb jowls ended up behind bars with a quickness. Can you imagine being this stupid and then people on a video game try to emulate how stupid you are and call it good roleplay? ?

 

One thing that is accurate on GTA:W is that the world has a lot of really, really, really stupid criminals. The thing that's different from IRL in GTA:W is that the police still need to do a lot of work to catch stupid criminals because of our heavy RP standard, but stupid criminals still get to be completely stupid. How criminals do extortion RP on GTA:W is really fucking stupid but the police aren't currently equipped to shut down factions over it and arrest people for 10+ years each because of OOC rules about how much work they need to put into casefiles.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Ink

[shiroq]

5 hours ago, Tsarna said:

You found 4-5 cases in a metropolitan city and I am sure, ya searched for more. And now, how is it ig? 99% businesses are extorted. ?

No I spent 5 minutes to find a few examples because that's all i cared to do as this topic is pointless, but yes once again the typical gtaw player is incapable of doing their own research and prefers to talk nonsense because it fits their narrative.

 

5 minutes ago, Ink said:

I appreciate you linking more evidence of why extortion RP on our server is unrealistic. You realize every single one of these extortion attempts ends with a police response and an arrest? The only one that doesn't was two of the articles you linked talking about the actual pants-on-head morons who tried to extort a shop for $100,000 and actually got their asses shot up by the business owner and as of the article's posting were being hunted by the police. ?

Yes because succesful crime gets reported in the news, again it's not about success or not. All of you are arguing it doesn't happen. Success of extotrion is completely an IC thing if you are too scared to go to the police about it well then that's your choice, otherwise go to the police and actually roleplay instead of looking for ooc protection to farm money

Edited August 9, 2020 by shiroq

[Ink]

Just now, shiroq said:

Yes because succesful crime gets reported in the news, again it's not about success or not. All of you are arguing it doesn't happen. Success of extotrion is completely an IC thing if you are too scared to go to the police about it well then that's your choice, otherwise go to the police and actually roleplay instead of looking for ooc protection to farm money

 

As said very clearly before: Currently extortion roleplayers feel comfortable doing all these stupid, unrealistic extortions which in real life would have them arrested within a few days and imprisoned by a judge for 10 years at minimum is because our police factions are currently unable to adequately respond to these sorts of cases because of OOC demands of their heavy roleplay quality. They need to spend tens of hours putting together casefiles over even the dumbest 5-10 minutes of unrealistic, uncreative, uninteresting, uninspired, undesired, unimpressive criminal roleplay. 

 

No one likes extortion roleplay but the people doing the extortion. It is a cancer on this server. It is actually ridiculous that on a heavy RP depiction of Los Angeles our characters quickly find out that opening a business in any part of the city will get them visited by multiple mafia families demanding a cut. It's actually supremely dumb.

You did 5 minutes of research similar in depth and interest as someone who does 5 minutes of RP extorting a business. Shallow, lacking depth, no insight, and contributing nothing. 

[shiroq]

Just now, Ink said:

currently unable to adequately respond to these sorts of cases because of OOC demands of their heavy roleplay quality.

That's an IC issue completely, PD officers put the focus on meaningless things like chasing idiots across san andreas when they should be simply getting warrants and packing them up at their house the next day. Majority of PD is focused on instant action and instant gratification. No one wants to do cases or major busts, granted the wire taps have pushed things in a better direction but PD culture needs to change not some OOC rules to restrict roleplay.

 

1 minute ago, Ink said:

You did 5 minutes of research similar in depth and interest as someone who does 5 minutes of RP extorting a business. Shallow, lacking depth, no insight, and contributing nothing. 

Have you made an rp quality report? I bet you haven't. You're actually complaining about poor roleplay.

[Ink]

1 hour ago, shiroq said:

That's an IC issue completely, PD officers put the focus on meaningless things like chasing idiots across san andreas when they should be simply getting warrants and packing them up at their house the next day. Majority of PD is focused on instant action and instant gratification. No one wants to do cases or major busts, granted the wire taps have pushed things in a better direction but PD culture needs to change not some OOC rules to restrict roleplay.

 

I don't agree that it's an IC issue completely. PD has a lot of OOC rules and a lot of OOC demands on it by the community. Investigative roles require a person have multiple OOC months in the PD faction already and has shown outstanding roleplay and quality. They also need rather large amounts of IC and OOC training. For them to get to this position in the first place requires literally over a hundred of real life hours already spent on paperwork and detailing case files on the forums. Then, when they get to being in a position where they're responsible for chasing after organized crime, they have to spend hours and hours compiling evidence, witnesses, interviews, building case files, making surveillance, and so on.

Because even though in real life one idiot extorting a business can quickly have a team of officers led by a detective snooping him down, in game because literally 50% of the online population is a criminal and so many of them are doing stupid unrealistic crimes and there are 5 mafia families running around extorting every god damn business under the sun with the equivalent of "/me walks in, /me asks for the owner, /me asks for 10k a week" you can expect that there's an OOC throughput issue here not an IC one. It's a concept known as leverage; it takes a tiny amount of work for criminal RPers to create a ton of OOC/IC work for LEO RPers. In real life, LEOs are paid professionals who work 40-60 hour weeks chasing criminals and investigating is the easiest way to do it. In game, LEOs are people like you and me who are trying to play a video game, RP, live a character's life that isn't their own, and investigative work is a chore (a fun chore for some of them, but still a chore).

And it's ironic that you accuse legal roleplayers of "farming money" because they're running roleplay businesses to make GTA:W's Los Santos more interesting and lifelike while the criminal RPers walking from door to door like girl scouts selling cookies demanding passive income to roll towards them every week with their toxic RP hijacking which contributes nothing to this server except making our city an unrealistically wretched hive of scum and villainy is not "farming money." One group of RPers is providing the whole server with something to do, a place to meet, an experience to enjoy, and the other group of RPers is acting like an IC and OOC parasite warping and twisting someone else's RP to suit their own interests while providing next to nothing in return. A net drain on society.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Ink

[Tsarna]

3 minutes ago, Ink said:

 

I don't agree that it's an IC issue completely. PD has a lot of OOC rules and a lot of OOC demands on it by the community. Investigative roles require a person have multiple OOC months in the PD faction already and has shown outstanding roleplay and quality. They also need rather large amounts of IC and OOC training. For them to get to this position in the first place requires literally over a hundred of real life hours already spent on paperwork and detailing case files on the forums. Then, when they get to being in a position where they're responsible for chasing after organized crime, they have to spend hours and hours compiling evidence, witnesses, interviews, building case files, making surveillance, and so on.

Because even though in real life one idiot extorting a business can quickly have a team of officers led by a detective snooping him down, in game because literally 50% of the online population is a criminal and so many of them are doing stupid unrealistic crimes and there are 5 mafia families running around extorting every god damn business under the sun with the equivalent of "/me walks in, /me asks for the owner, /me asks for 10k a week" you can expect that there's an OOC throughput issue here not an IC one. It's a concept known as leverage; it takes a tiny amount of work for criminal RPers to create a ton of OOC/IC work for LEO RPers.

And it's ironic that you accuse legal roleplayers of "farming money" because they're running roleplay businesses to make GTA:W's Los Santos more interesting and lifelike while the criminal RPers walking from door to door like girl scouts selling cookies demanding passive income to roll towards them every week with their toxic RP hijacking which contributes nothing to this server except making our city an unrealistically wretched hive of scum and villainy is not "farming money."

What can you expect from one of them? It is quite clear, that a person, who does it like the "girl scout" way does not want to have OOC rules. He can not see, how much hours the LEO detective will have to put under one investigation, but illegal people can go door to door in the matter of one hour.

[Wolfhound]

From what I've seen and heard, the topic brings up valid points but some people seem to forget one very basic thing: San Andreas is based in the US. A land where people have the right to bear arms. Like, for sure, you won't see a gourmet restaurant owner coming up at you with a shotgun if you try to act tough for peanuts in his place, but there are surely places where if you pull the Johnny Cowboy Sopranos shit, most of the time the guy behind the counter will pull a shotgun.

 

As for criminals, I'm not trying to talk bad about every single one, but I see some of them rely on criminal schemes that are reminiscent of the 90s. Problem is, it's 2020. Extortion for example in metropolitan areas will lead to attention from federal agents, which is already more worse than actual police response. And yes I know, extortion is not dead, but you surely won't see your generic wiseguy walk down the main road to get ol' Mister Walker to pay up for protection while risking the FBI coming down on him hard.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Wolfhound

[Tsarna]

12 minutes ago, Wolfhound said:

From what I've seen and heard, the topic brings up valid points but some people seem to forget one very basic thing: San Andreas is based in the US. A land where people have the right to bear arms. Like, for sure, you won't see a gourmet restaurant owner coming up at you with a shotgun if you try to act tough for peanuts in his place, but there are surely places where if you pull the Johnny Cowboy Sopranos shit, most of the time the guy behind the counter will pull a shotgun.

 

As for criminals, I'm not trying to talk bad about every single one, but I see some of them rely on criminal schemes that are reminiscent of the 90s. Problem is, it's 2020. Extortion for example in metropolitan areas will lead to attention from federal agents, which is already more worse than actual police response. And yes I know, extortion is not dead, but you surely won't see your generic wiseguy walk down the main road to get ol' Mister Walker to pay up for protection while risking the FBI coming down on him hard.

Thank you - our point all along. People do not seem to just get it, that realistic: they would be charged with federal crimes and go away for a long time. And not only them, they whole illegal enterprise, because they are: calling their bosses with their phones, they are going door to door like girl scouts, they go back to the hideout. No fear, no nothing. Not all of them (few exceptions), but MOST of them do that. (or log out, until next weekend, to collect the cookie money again)

[Akaya]

8 hours ago, Geobub said:

Ultimately if things go really wrong for the extorting party they might get locked up for what... A month top OOC?

There's really no reason not to blindly extort businesses. I think it's about encouraging things to he handled intelligently, perhaps encouraging illegal groups to extort less businesses for higher amounts due to needing to maintain pressure. We shouldn't be hunting means to ensure legal players remain entirely safe from illegal aspects, but we should be trying to OOCly protect the players from getting too heavily punished when they are not actively sinking themselves into trouble.

CKs for players who try to get police help on an extortion case seems like just that, punishing players who have been dragged into an awful situation whilst not offering all too much consequence to the players who actively seek higher risk situations. 
 

 

[Lucie]

I agree on a 100% a legal business in a centric commercial area shouldnt be exorted by random illegal characters with no connections. If you are part of an illegal faction even if the business is legal, then yes. You should be allowed to be exorted if you have connections with these illegal characters on the other hand