Current State of Extorting Businesses

[Jari13X]

2 hours ago, AK12Kleiza said:

I'm not sure if it's exactly what you're looking for, but it's the closest one I could find.

 

he did the right thing by reporting it, as in all other events that may seem to be unrealistic, I don't see why there should be RPGish restrictions, if its not done right report it.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Jola

[Ink]

11 minutes ago, Chef said:

 

 

 

 

These are just a few examples. In English too, lucky for you. The comments telling you to take it IC are giving the benefit of the doubt to the criminal factions that are actually representing extortion accurately and fairly IC. In those scenarios, the roleplay isn't so bland. It's not a money for nothing exchange with the only roleplay being a once a week /pay or I'll break your kneecaps. 

 

What you are describing is a poorly portrayed faction and poorly portrayed characters. The roleplay itself is tainted and unrealistic. That is something that you report.

 

What you don't report is being upset that you've lost stats. Either the RP is flawed, or your outlook of the situation is flawed. 

 

The argument this thread is making is that, no, criminal factions are overwhelmingly not "representing extortion accurately and fairly IC" but that people are abusing the atrophied state of investigative PD roleplay on this server and the OOC throughput issue to have their characters extort businesses with impunity regardless of geographic location, any roleplayed fear of consequences, or even a fundamental recognition of the unrealistic nature of extorting American businesses in the middle of 2020 Los Angeles, especially in predominantly wealthy neighborhoods. 

 

The fact of the matter is I know of at least five factions who engage in extortion roleplay regularly, and honestly? Not impressed with any of them. I've seen plenty of the roleplay and the vast majority of what I have seen has been an utterly uninspired yawn-fest. It's little more than robbing someone at gunpoint except because you're doing it "wit da family" and not waving a gun around it lets you ignore the server's rob limits and turn it into a perpetuity income stream. Boring. Pass.

 

Roleplay criminals better. It's not an IC issue, it's taking advantage of the OOC limitations of the environment to play unrealistic characters in lieu of meaningful character development and reaching for something more engaging which creates roleplay for the server.

[Martyn]

Just now, Ink said:

 

The argument this thread is making is that, no, criminal factions are overwhelmingly not "representing extortion accurately and fairly IC" but that people are abusing the atrophied state of investigative PD roleplay on this server and the OOC throughput issue to have their characters extort businesses with impunity regardless of geographic location, any roleplayed fear of consequences, or even a fundamental recognition of the unrealistic nature of extorting American businesses in the middle of 2020 Los Angeles, especially in predominantly wealthy neighborhoods. 

 

The fact of the matter is I know of at least five factions who engage in extortion roleplay regularly, and honestly? Not impressed with any of them. I've seen plenty of the roleplay and the vast majority of what I have seen has been an utterly uninspired yawn-fest. It's little more than robbing someone at gunpoint except because you're doing it "wit da family" and not waving a gun around it lets you ignore the server's rob limits and turn it into a perpetuity income stream. Boring. Pass.

 

Roleplay criminals better. It's not an IC issue, it's taking advantage of the OOC limitations of the environment to play unrealistic characters in lieu of meaningful character development and reaching for something more engaging which creates roleplay for the server.

 

Well said, and for anyone who goes "Report it". This happens so often that making forum reports and role play quality reports will be a daily chore. THAT is simply how bad it has become. And I'm not going to backseat moderate the server because some faction leaders can't uphold proper standards to their members. That's THEIR responsibility, not mine. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Martyn

[Chef]

Just now, Ink said:

 

The argument this thread is making is that, no, criminal factions are overwhelmingly not "representing extortion accurately and fairly IC" but that people are abusing the atrophied state of investigative PD roleplay on this server and the OOC throughput issue to have their characters extort businesses with impunity regardless of geographic location, any roleplayed fear of consequences, or even a fundamental recognition of the unrealistic nature of extorting American businesses in the middle of 2020 Los Angeles, especially in predominantly wealthy neighborhoods. 

 

The fact of the matter is I know of at least five factions who engage in extortion roleplay regularly, and honestly? Not impressed with any of them. I've seen plenty of the roleplay and the vast majority of what I have seen has been an utterly uninspired yawn-fest. It's little more than robbing someone at gunpoint except because you're doing it "wit da family" and not waving a gun around it lets you ignore the server's rob limits and turn it into a perpetuity income stream. Boring. Pass.

 

Roleplay criminals better. It's not an IC issue, it's taking advantage of the OOC limitations of the environment to play unrealistic characters in lieu of meaningful character development and reaching for something more engaging which creates roleplay for the server.

 

You're painting a lot of people with one very broad brushstroke and using this thread as a means to clearly air out a personal vendetta with the LCN factions on this server; it's sad.

 

You're roleplaying with the wrong factions, that's all I can tell you. Report them for not portraying their faction and their characters properly if you feel what they are doing is so absurd. Again. You keep making the same complaint over and over, I'm going to keep giving you the same answer. I do the same thing when I encounter factions or individuals which aren't acting appropriately for the setting. I report them to management. If you're saying it's gotten so bad that reports will flood the forums on the daily @Martyn? Then maybe making noise is the best option. Clearly if that many people are taking up arms about it then it will be a problem that the administration will be forced to address.

 

Some factions, despite knowing OOCly that the police department likely won't ever bring up a case file on them or engage in any type of investigative roleplay, still choose to roleplay paranoia and fear of law enforcement and stay out of the limelight — yes, even before the recent update... Imagine that. But of course, you don't see them because you encounter the bad apples and let them spoil the bunch. 

[Ink]

2 minutes ago, Chef said:

 

You're painting a lot of people with one very broad brushstroke and using this thread as a means to clearly air out a personal vendetta with the LCN factions on this server; it's sad.

 

I have no vendetta. My character has avoided all roleplay entirely with the criminal element of this server in every possible way. However, despite playing a 100% legal character operating fully within the law and seeking to purchase a business in a high-traffic, wealthy neighborhood, my character has been informed by multiple different people of the extreme threat criminal extortion plays in this city. As someone who IRL has owned business in Los Angeles and who knows dozens of other business owners in Los Angeles personally, I can tell you that this is remarkably unrealistic, rooted deeply in outdated stereotypes, and is indicative of a lack of creativity and depth to criminal roleplay across this server. 

 

2 minutes ago, Chef said:

You're roleplaying with the wrong factions, that's all I can tell you. Report them for not portraying their faction and their characters properly if you feel what they are doing is so absurd. Again. You keep making the same complaint over and over, I'm going to keep giving you the same answer. I do the same thing when I encounter factions or individuals which aren't acting appropriately for the setting. I report them to management. If you're saying it's gotten so bad that reports will flood the forums on the daily @Martyn? Then maybe making noise is the best option. Clearly if that many people are taking up arms about it then it will be a problem that the administration will be forced to address.

 

It is not my responsibility, nor that of any player, to constantly police other players. It's the responsibility of every player to take it as their own responsibility to play a well-researched, realistic character and to develop them in a realistic way, and for those characters to acknowledge the bounds of the world they live in. We as players using our precious real life time to come in game and tell engaging narrative stories on a hobbyist roleplay server should not have to subscribe to 3+ hours of compiling evidence and reporting every time criminal roleplayers fuck up their responsibility, and then having to respond to arguments and dealing with toxicity from passive aggressive responses (like "How many languages do I have to tell you in" or "it's sad"). 

 

I come onto this server to RP. I play a legal character with no connections whatsoever to the criminal element of this server in large part because I do not find the OOC toxicity involved with dealing with shitty criminal RP to be an engaging or interesting use of my time. So far, I have been entirely successful in avoiding shitty criminal RP--or any criminal RP for that matter. But it seems like if I want to realistically progress my character, I also need to now be willing to be piled on by five different mafia families each wanting my character to pay them. Any roleplay I engage with these  factions will almost certainly put my character into the line of fire, and judging by people's past experiences, will significantly increase my risk of being CKed and losing the hundreds of real life hours of roleplay, professional development, and interpersonal development I've invested into.

 

2 minutes ago, Chef said:

 

Some factions, despite knowing OOCly that the police department likely won't ever bring up a case file on them or engage in any type of investigative roleplay, still choose to roleplay paranoia and fear of law enforcement and stay out of the limelight — yes, even before the recent update... Imagine that. But of course, you don't see them because you encounter the bad apples and let them spoil the bunch. 

 

If you are truly, as you say, a shining example of excellent criminal roleplay, then congratulations, you are the exception, and the role model. This topic isn't about you. You, as a presumably self-declared ultimate criminal roleplayer, should be just as irritated and offended by shitty depictions of unrealistic criminals because they rightfully give the rest of the state of criminal RP on this server a bad name. You should not be surprised that us legal roleplayers who pour hundreds of hours of our real life time into building this city's business scene and creating RP opportunities for everyone else on the server will be frustrated by shitty criminal roleplay where people pretend like they're invincible from the law because they know the odds of having a cop dedicate the dozen+ hours of investigative work to catch them for one crime and give them a few hours in jail is just not worth it.

This thread is exactly that "making noise" that you're encouraging us to do. Extortion on this server is out of hand, and little more than money farming for criminal factions. If you're such a great roleplayer and your faction goes to such lengths to realistically portray your criminality, then you should be condemning the people who take shortcuts and make a mockery of your narrative by association.

[Martyn]

15 minutes ago, Chef said:

 

You're painting a lot of people with one very broad brushstroke and using this thread as a means to clearly air out a personal vendetta with the LCN factions on this server; it's sad.

 

You're roleplaying with the wrong factions, that's all I can tell you. Report them for not portraying their faction and their characters properly if you feel what they are doing is so absurd. Again. You keep making the same complaint over and over, I'm going to keep giving you the same answer. I do the same thing when I encounter factions or individuals which aren't acting appropriately for the setting. I report them to management. If you're saying it's gotten so bad that reports will flood the forums on the daily @Martyn? Then maybe making noise is the best option. Clearly if that many people are taking up arms about it then it will be a problem that the administration will be forced to address.

 

Some factions, despite knowing OOCly that the police department likely won't ever bring up a case file on them or engage in any type of investigative roleplay, still choose to roleplay paranoia and fear of law enforcement and stay out of the limelight — yes, even before the recent update... Imagine that. But of course, you don't see them because you encounter the bad apples and let them spoil the bunch. 

What I fail to understand is why you're so eager for people to be forum reporting others. The majority of these people who roleplay this poorly don't even realize it. It would be so much better to get a statement from the servers management or from faction management to address the extortion issue and explain the do's and don'ts and instead of punishing people or publicly shaming them. We could be assisting them with guidance, and help. I'm genuinely astonished with this "Report them, report them, report them" argument. It's so lackluster and honestly? That's NOT how you help people improve. That's how you'll just anger people that didn't know any better to begin with because it has never been addressed and apparently nobody ever told them it's wrong.

 

I'm honestly flabbergasted by some of the responses in this thread, as if we're not playing on the same server? We're lobbying for change, for better role play. How can ANYONE even oppose this without simply trying to maintain their super mastermind do it all criminal character? I honestly don't get it, nothing we say is crazy and the solutions we offer aren't crazy either. It all encourages realistic decision making and thought processes? If you don't want to participate on a HARDCORE roleplay server. Then don't? But don't come here and pretend like there's not a problem and then tell people to just "report report report" when it can be handled way more subtly and in a very more player friendly manner. Perhaps you should let that sink in for a few minutes before replying. Think of the community as a whole and its future, not just yourself and your close associates.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Martyn

[shiroq]

4 minutes ago, Ink said:

This thread is exactly that "making noise" that you're encouraging us to do. Extortion on this server is out of hand, and little more than money farming for criminal factions. If you're such a great roleplayer and your faction goes to such lengths to realistically portray your criminality, then you should be condemning the people who take shortcuts and make a mockery of your narrative by association.

Have you not read the thread at all? Maybe we should pool our resources and translate this to any possible language on the planet. IF you see unrealistic portrayal REPORT IT to ILLEGAL FM. If you want some rpg restrictions because you are getting extorted and you are unable to get out of it by IC means then maybe this server is not for you? Because it's a roleplay server this isn't an RPG server where you are shielded and protected by 200 rules that dictatate what people can and can't do. There is a million of ways for you to deal with such situation IC but it's rather clear to me and most people that you and a lot of other people don't care about it and all you want is "please stop extortion, i don't want to lose my e-dollars"

You have every possibility to deal with this IC and if the roleplay is bad, unrealistic OOC as well. This is a roleplay server, yes there is bad factions there is horrible portrayal but you rather get yourself protected by some stupid ooc rules instead of helping the server bloom and reporting these "horrible" rpers you are talking about?

[Chef]

34 minutes ago, Ink said:

I have no vendetta. My character has avoided all roleplay entirely with the criminal element of this server in every possible way.

But you're using examples that seem rather specific to LCN factions, especially with the waste management and stereotypical Italian names you mentioned earlier. But okay.

 

34 minutes ago, Ink said:

As someone who IRL has owned business in Los Angeles and who knows dozens of other business owners in Los Angeles personally, I can tell you that this is remarkably unrealistic, rooted deeply in outdated stereotypes, and is indicative of a lack of creativity and depth to criminal roleplay across this server. 

I never downright disagreed with this point, but I also don't think you've even bothered to read the responses I put up earlier on the thread where I said the server lacks an environment to mimic the actual extortion that exists in LA.

 

34 minutes ago, Ink said:

I do not find the OOC toxicity involved with dealing with shitty criminal RP to be an engaging or interesting use of my time.

At least we can agree with one thing.

 

34 minutes ago, Ink said:

It is not my responsibility, nor that of any player, to constantly police other players. It's the responsibility of every player to take it as their own responsibility to play a well-researched, realistic character and to develop them in a realistic way, and for those characters to acknowledge the bounds of the world they live in. We as players using our precious real life time to come in game and tell engaging narrative stories on a hobbyist roleplay server should not have to subscribe to 3+ hours of compiling evidence and reporting every time criminal roleplayers fuck up their responsibility, and then having to respond to arguments and dealing with toxicity from passive aggressive responses (like "How many languages do I have to tell you in" or "it's sad"). 

It is sad because the tools to solve your problem are available to you, yet you don't use them. Not just yourself specifically, but many roleplayers in all points of the spectrum. It's not your responsibility to police but it is your responsibility to report rule breaking and poor portrayal, allowing it to exist without formally bringing it to the attention of administration is really no better than exhibiting the behavior yourself. The admin team has said on several occasions it is reactive, not proactive. Unless you show them something to their face (or eyes I guess in our virtual case) they won't be able to handle it appropriately. I, like yourself, have very limited time to roleplay. 8 hours in a week would be an active one for me. I agree with wanting to tell an engaging story with my roleplay. That's the point. Those that aren't here to play a believable character, break immersion and commit unrealistic acts ICly are not here to roleplay in my eyes and shouldn't be here.

 

34 minutes ago, Ink said:

If you are truly, as you say, a shining example of excellent criminal roleplay, then congratulations, you are the exception, and the role model. This topic isn't about you. You, as a presumably self-declared ultimate criminal roleplayer, should be just as irritated and offended by shitty depictions of unrealistic criminals because they rightfully give the rest of the state of criminal RP on this server a bad name.

Wow, what assumptions you've made. I wasn't insinuating that I was "ultimate" or a "shining example" I'm saying that I believe in the actions of the GOOD factions which I don't feel deserve to be slandered by your overly inclusive statement that somehow it's the majority that are bad. I am happy in the small group of roleplayers I have within my faction and I stand by them and their roleplay. Myself, however? I'm probably my own biggest critic.

 

34 minutes ago, Ink said:

This thread is exactly that "making noise" that you're encouraging us to do.

Not the right type of noise, because it's informal and I doubt the administration will do anything unless it's in a PM as a report to management or in the report section itself.

 

32 minutes ago, Martyn said:

What I fail to understand is why you're so eager for people to be forum reporting others.

Again, because it will bring it to the administration's attention in the proper format and hopefully inspire the change you want to see. At this point, you're being about as proactive as a group of old men who gather at the local gas station to complain about how shitty politics are yet they avoid the poll stations on election day like the plague.

 

32 minutes ago, Martyn said:

If you don't want to participate on a HARDCORE roleplay server. Then don't?

I could not agree more.

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Chef

[Martyn]

Just now, Chef said:

Again, because it will bring it to the administration's attention in the proper format and hopefully inspire the change you want to see. At this point, you're being about as proactive as a group of old men who gather at the local gas station to complain about how shitty politics are yet they avoid the poll stations on election day like the plague.

Not at all, you think the administration team doesn't read these topics? It's the general discussion, we're discussing a legitimate problem in public for everyone to see. You've quite literally said everyone expressing their opinion here is simply talking to a wall. Not only is this a very rude thing to say, it's a rather immature stance to take when people are trying to have a legitimate discussion about something that is clearly a problem and is impacting a significant portion of the community. I'm rather appalled by your attitude.

[Cara]

If you think his attitude is bad you’re going to have a very hard time in general on the server.

 

He is right - reports are needed before things are dealt with.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Cara