Officially define SA as it's own State from CA

[Midwest]

32 minutes ago, CloutToken said:

I refuse to roleplay California and Los Angeles co-existing along San Andreas and Los Santos. Los Santos is literally identical to Los Angeles as seen here:

 

 

 

I could go on and on. Take both LEO factions for example. LSPD's history is mostly based on the LAPD's, and even uses the name of an LAPD chief in the faction thread. The motto "To Protect and To Serve" is utilized by the LAPD. The same goes for LSSD, with a former Sheriff being based on a corrupt one in the LASD, and again, the motto is the same as the LASD's "A Tradition of Service". We are literally California. Roleplaying Los Santos and Los Angeles coexisting sounds like one of the most immersion-breaking things that could come to my mind. How do you justify two completely identical cities existing alongside each other? Was a theme park based on California made in the middle of the Pacific Ocean that eventually turned into a functioning state? It makes no sense.

To just say "who cares" for every counter-argument brought up doesn't show that there's much realism put into this idea.

this is spot on

[CloutToken]

38 minutes ago, CloutToken said:

I refuse to roleplay California and Los Angeles co-existing along San Andreas and Los Santos. Los Santos is literally identical to Los Angeles as seen here:

 

 

 

I could go on and on. Take both LEO factions for example. LSPD's history is mostly based on the LAPD's, and even uses the name of an LAPD chief in the faction thread. The motto "To Protect and To Serve" is utilized by the LAPD. The same goes for LSSD, with a former Sheriff being based on a corrupt one in the LASD, and again, the motto is the same as the LASD's "A Tradition of Service". We are literally California. Roleplaying Los Santos and Los Angeles coexisting sounds like one of the most immersion-breaking things that could come to my mind. How do you justify two completely identical cities existing alongside each other? Was a theme park based on California made in the middle of the Pacific Ocean that eventually turned into a functioning state? It makes no sense.

To just say "who cares" for every counter-argument brought up doesn't show that there's much realism put into this idea.

I want to add on to my point about history. The City of Los Santos was found in 1781 according to the logo, so was Los Angeles. The LSPD was founded in 1853. The LAPD was also discovered during 1853 after a murder occurred in the City of LA. Then the LSSD was founded in 1850, the same year the LASD was created. It's too conflicting.

[Brett]

44 minutes ago, CloutToken said:

I refuse to roleplay California and Los Angeles co-existing along San Andreas and Los Santos. Los Santos is literally identical to Los Angeles as seen here:

 

 

 

I could go on and on. Take both LEO factions for example. LSPD's history is mostly based on the LAPD's, and even uses the name of an LAPD chief in the faction thread. The motto "To Protect and To Serve" is utilized by the LAPD. The same goes for LSSD, with a former Sheriff being based on a corrupt one in the LASD, and again, the motto is the same as the LASD's "A Tradition of Service". We are literally California. Roleplaying Los Santos and Los Angeles coexisting sounds like one of the most immersion-breaking things that could come to my mind. How do you justify two completely identical cities existing alongside each other? Was a theme park based on California made in the middle of the Pacific Ocean that eventually turned into a functioning state? It makes no sense.

To just say "who cares" for every counter-argument brought up doesn't show that there's much realism put into this idea.

Or maybe, it's a call to start making stuff more unique rather then copy pasting straight from IRL. Rockstar didn't make GTA V, GTA SA, or GTA IV, or any of it's other games to strictly be carbon cut ripoffs. Sure they implemented things from IRL into the place, and there is of course inspiration, but if they wanted them to be the exact same they could've done it. Just like how Watchdogs made Chicago the main city, even though the game geography does not resemble Chicago. I say who cares, because nobody is bitching about how SA is surrounded by water while acting like it's CA because LA is not surrounded by water on all sides, nor is there a massive desert right north of it. 

[CloutToken]

5 minutes ago, Brett said:

Or maybe, it's a call to start making stuff more unique rather then copy pasting straight from IRL. Rockstar didn't make GTA V, GTA SA, or GTA IV, or any of it's other games to strictly be carbon cut ripoffs. Sure they implemented things from IRL into the place, and there is of course inspiration, but if they wanted them to be the exact same they could've done it. Just like how Watchdogs made Chicago the main city, even though the game geography does not resemble Chicago. I say who cares, because nobody is bitching about how SA is surrounded by water while acting like it's CA because LA is not surrounded by water on all sides, nor is there a massive desert right north of it. 

So what's the history behind the cities looking identical? How do you justify it?

In my opinion, I'd much rather have Los Santos have its own identity without it's IRL counterpart than just having it be a Chinese-made ripoff Los Angeles in our world.

Edited November 23, 2019 by CloutToken

[Brett]

10 minutes ago, CloutToken said:

So what's the history behind the cities looking identical? How do you justify it?

In my opinion, I'd much rather have Los Santos have its own identity without it's IRL counterpart than just having it be a Chinese-made ripoff Los Angeles in our world.

I mean, architecture styles in general are usually rather similar. A lot of east coast cities and towns share architecture styles, even though they may develop differently. A similar story like that can be done here. Not really a massive "justification," just similar architecture and structure which is normal for cities. It's not like LS shares the same exact development as real life LA, there is difference, although similarities since of course it was loosely based on the LA style. Not really an immersion breaker.  

[CloutToken]

Just now, Brett said:

I mean, architecture styles in general are usually rather similar. A lot of east coast cities and towns share architecture styles, even though they may develop differently. A similar story like that can be done here. Not really a massive "justification," just similar architecture and structure which is normal for cities. It's not like LS shares the same exact development as real life LA, there is difference, although similarities since of course it was loosely based on the LA style. Not really an immersion breaker.  

What about landmarks such as the Galileo (Griffith) Observatory, the Vinewood (Hollywood) Sign, Vinewood (Hollywood) Boulevard, and Del Pierro (Santa Monica) Pier?

[Hugh-Gi-Oh]

I must say, saying 'who cares' I find explicitly wrong. Because I definitely care. We are indeed California, which means we share many things. But when I point out a fact about our climate IC - that I deduced based on California's climate - I'm told by other RPrs,"That's Los Angeles, not Los Santos". And I'm just like, "They're literally the exact same thing". It totally ruins RP for me in that moment 'cause then I have to think about, okay, so my character would realistically be aware that Los Angeles exists then. It's just really weird. And yeah, this has really happened, this exact situation.

 

I wanna point out that the GTAV world space is known as Southern San Andreas - we are not the entire state of San Andreas, just one island, and yes, San Fierro and Las Venturas still exist and are still parts of San Andreas. Source: https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/State_of_San_Andreas_(HD_Universe)

 

I do concede that yes, Rockstar Games didn't intend to make San Andreas a carbon copy of California. And that's another thing. I think we should stop prioritizing real life over GTA lore. GTA lore is interesting, it's fun, and having just a little bit of fantasy in the backstory of the RP world doesn't hurt. It's not particularly unrealistic, it's just elements that make the world a little different than our own, adding interesting elements to RP around. Let Los Santos have those things that make it unique, that give it its own identity, while still acknowledging that it does indeed replace its real life equivalents.  Prioritizing real life all the time takes away the few things we have left that make this world so interesting to RP in, and not just, as Brett said, a carbon copy of our own.

 

Finally, I wanna add one more image to that list of images @CloutToken so kindly supplied us with, 'cause it is a perfect representation why cloning cities shouldn't work:

 

Venice Beach and West Los Angeles:

 

Vespucci Beach and West Los Santos:

 

 

Here you'll see just how well Rockstar Games representated Los Angeles in its own form. It's DEFINITELY, without any shred of doubt, the same city. The harbor's position is nearly identical, its shape is smaller but still obviously similar, the pier is in the same place, the shape of the highway is the same thing. They're the same!

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Hugh-Gi-Oh

[Brett]

4 minutes ago, CloutToken said:

What about landmarks such as the Galileo (Griffith) Observatory, the Vinewood (Hollywood) Sign, Vinewood (Hollywood) Boulevard, and Del Pierro (Santa Monica) Pier?

Goes back to the architecture argument. The Observatory and Vinewood Signs are both of course located in Vinewood, and may simply choose to take inspiration. The Griffith Observatory started to be built in 1933, while even in GTA V lore the Galileo Observatory was built towards the end of the 19th century as shown by this;

 

Quote

"Set up high in the Vinewood Hills with stunning views of the city, the Galileo Observatory was constructed at the end of the 19th century to make astronomy more accessible to the general public, but mostly now serves as a reminder of what little progress has been made in space exploration in the past 40 years"
―GTA V digital manual

 

Who knows, maybe you could even swing that the LA observatory was actually inspired by some initial constructions from the Galileo Observatory as by canon lore, ours would be older. Same can happen for a few other landmarks.

 

9 minutes ago, Hugh-Gi-Oh said:

I must say, saying 'who cares' I find explicitly wrong. Because I definitely care. We are indeed California, which means we share many things. But when I point out a fact about our climate IC - that I deduced based on California's climate - I'm told by other RPrs,"That's Los Angeles, not Los Santos". And I'm just like, "They're literally the exact same thing". It totally ruins RP for me in that moment 'cause then I have to think about, okay, so my character would realistically be aware that Los Angeles exists then. It's just really weird. And yeah, this has really happened, this exact situation.

 

I wanna point out that the GTAV world space is known as Southern San Andreas - we are not the entire state of San Andreas, just one island, and yes, San Fierro and Las Venturas still exist and are still parts of San Andreas. Source: https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/State_of_San_Andreas_(HD_Universe)

 

I do concede that yes, Rockstar Games didn't intend to make San Andreas a carbon copy of California. And that's another thing. I think we should stop prioritizing real life over GTA lore. GTA lore is interesting, it's fun, and having just a little bit of fantasy in the backstory of the RP world doesn't hurt. It's not particularly unrealistic, it's just elements that make the world a little different than our own, adding interesting elements to RP around. Let Los Santos have those things that make it unique, that give it its own identity, while still acknowledging that it does indeed replace its real life equivalents.  Prioritizing real life all the time takes away the few things we have left that make this world so interesting to RP in, and not just, as Brett said, a carbon copy of our own.

 

Finally, I wanna add one more image to that list of images @CloutToken so kindly supplied us with, 'cause it is a perfect representation why cloning cities shouldn't work:

 

Venice Beach and West Los Angeles:

 

Vespucci Beach and West Los Santos:

 

 

Here you'll see just how well Rockstar Games representated Los Angeles in its own form. It's DEFINITELY, without any shred of doubt, the same city.

 

California isn't an island, period. You can't be like "OH MY GOD, MY IMMERSION WILL BE GONE IF WE'RE SEPARATE." But also 100% accept that the state is divided into multiple different islands with different cities on each. And that doesn't really make a lot of sense, under the line of logic you're trying to argue when it comes to a unified close to realistic CA portrayal. Especially even considering that Las Venturas is based off Las Vegas, Nevada. Yet would under the way you're seeing it, apparently roleplayed as a California City? What sense does that really make to annex Las Vegas into California? I think you see my point of why I believe it would be better to just create the different states, rather then try and replace actual cities with their fictional counterparts as that would lead to some weird borders and other geographical struggles like annexing a major Nevada city, into California just to say it's California since we cannot discount LV from SA.  As for my comment in regards to not caring about geography, I meant not caring in regards to not questioning how LS seems to be it's own island with a desert county in the north which isn't how LA is IRL or CA. Yet people just play that off normally, and don't let it bother them.  

 

And as for the clone thing, I simply say just allow the cities if this were to happen just have been developed similarly. This is not an alien concept in city planning, and it would still fit with being on the same coasts within similar periods of time. 

 

[CloutToken]

18 minutes ago, Brett said:

Goes back to the architecture argument. The Observatory and Vinewood Signs are both of course located in Vinewood, and may simply choose to take inspiration. The Griffith Observatory started to be built in 1933, while even in GTA V lore the Galileo Observatory was built towards the end of the 19th century as shown by this;

 

 

Who knows, maybe you could even swing that the LA observatory was actually inspired by some initial constructions from the Galileo Observatory as by canon lore, ours would be older. Same can happen for a few other landmarks.

 

California isn't an island, period. You can't be like "OH MY GOD, MY IMMERSION WILL BE GONE IF WE'RE SEPARATE." But also 100% accept that the state is divided into multiple different islands with different cities on each. And that doesn't really make a lot of sense, under the line of logic you're trying to argue when it comes to a unified close to realistic CA portrayal. Especially even considering that Las Venturas is based off Las Vegas, Nevada. Yet would under the way you're seeing it, apparently roleplayed as a California City? What sense does that really make to annex Las Vegas into California? I think you see my point of why I believe it would be better to just create the different states, rather then try and replace actual cities with their fictional counterparts as that would lead to some weird borders and other geographical struggles like annexing a major Nevada city, into California just to say it's California since we cannot discount LV from SA.  As for my comment in regards to not caring about geography, I meant not caring in regards to not questioning how LS seems to be it's own island with a desert county in the north which isn't how LA is IRL or CA. Yet people just play that off normally, and don't let it bother them.  

 

And as for the clone thing, I simply say just allow the cities if this were to happen just have been developed similarly. This is not an alien concept in city planning, and it would still fit with being on the same coasts within similar periods of time. 

 

 

 

Fun fact, in one of the barbershops, it has a picture of the Vinewoodland sign, based off the Hollywoodland one that existed in the 1920s. Why did they decide to take down the "land" part when LA did? What is Los Santos trying to achieve by doing this?

A guy dressed up as his online character and went to Santa Monica Pier, then took a picture in game. Look at how similar they are.

 

This isn't "similar" development, or "inspiration", this is straight-up copying and indicates that this is meant to be our version of Los Angeles. Why do we have to make such a shady story for everything just so some people can roleplaying being born in LA?

Edited November 23, 2019 by CloutToken

[Brett]

Okay, then counter question. Would you support completely eradicating Las Vegas from Nevada, since Las Venturas is an SA city based on Las Vegas? If we're going to follow this argument, then we need to be consistent. Would you be fine with wiping out Las Vegas/Las Venturas from the State of Nevada and place it in the State of California, even though they're copies of each other? @CloutToken

 

Or how do you propose to resolve that one?