State of San Andreas - State of driving - Public Barometer

[joshua]

15 minutes ago, Power said:

I think is absolutely the wrong way to address it and creates more issues than problems. Coming from someone who has a Judge character and Public defender character our court system is overworked the way it is. Overcharging traffic offenses to felonies or misdemeanors has been a problem in the past and the DA's Office end up pleading them down anyway. Misdemeanor charges you can justify but Felony charges for traffic violations are unrealistic. And this is what I mean by people not being familiar with the way the law works in the States or even as they exist now on the server. It is near impossible to get charged with a felony for a traffic violation for simply driving to fast or a little recklessly. You can accidently kill someone and not get charged with a felony because our law is designed in a way to not be punitive to simply human error. DUIs and like things like Vehicular Manslaughter like intentionally harming someone with a vehicle are some of the few vehicular felonies that exist. Over charging is not the answer it just clogs up the courts with things that should of just been a ticket.

guess they should rewrite the definition of vehicular endangerment which infers the exact opposite of what you just said lol

 

Any person driving or operating a vehicle and causing severe endangerment, actual physical harm, or risk of physical harm to pedestrians, and/or driving in a manner that places the public in grave danger. 

[Robbie]

I'm down to sit down with people that are actually interested in making the appropriate changes, but for this particular issue I do believe that the changes gotta go through IC channels. We have an overwhelming problem right now when it comes to the driving state of our server, we got people getting arrested for driving without a license, coming out in 20-30 minutes and doing it immediately again only to get arrested, yet again, without any other consequence. 

[DLimit]

3 hours ago, Power said:

So I agree with some of the criticisms in this thread I think there is a general disconnect from a lot of the feedback. You can tell a lot of it comes from a lack of perspective on American driving, yet alone driving all together, or they way our traffic court works. Just for context Been on a Judge and Lawyer on separate characters on this server for several years. My Lawyer character does not have a great driving record by design as I roleplay him as a bit of a speed demon who loves high end sports cars. I've always gotten several tickets IRL in America multiple states so I've seen first hand how traffic court works in multiple areas of the US.

One issue and I've been wanting to make this suggestion for a while is a points system similar to criminal points but for traffic expenses. Systems like this exist is several states NY is the first one that comes to mind. Basically if you rack of points you can lose your license but more importantly the second you get a single point on your license your insurance goes up. So imagine license points is connected to a multiplier. Say you get some points for your fist offense, now your insurance cost on all your cars are 1.2x the normal cost. Get more points its becomes 1.5, etc, etc. 

 

  

 

I think is absolutely the wrong way to address it and creates more issues than problems. Coming from someone who has a Judge character and Public defender character our court system is overworked the way it is. Overcharging traffic offenses to felonies or misdemeanors has been a problem in the past and the DA's Office end up pleading them down anyway. Misdemeanor charges you can justify but Felony charges for traffic violations are unrealistic. And this is what I mean by people not being familiar with the way the law works in the States or even as they exist now on the server. It is near impossible to get charged with a felony for a traffic violation for simply driving to fast or a little recklessly. You can accidently kill someone and not get charged with a felony because our law is designed in a way to not be punitive to simply human error. DUIs and like things like Vehicular Manslaughter like intentionally harming someone with a vehicle are some of the few vehicular felonies that exist. Over charging is not the answer it just clogs up the courts with things that should of just been a ticket.

"Felony charges for traffic violations are unrealistic"

Try speeding 100mph-120mph within Los Angeles. MANY of these are reckless endangerment and should be portrayed as such, and maybe people will start driving more properly. 

"It is near impossible to get charged with a felony for a traffic violation"

Speeding 100mph-120mph in downtown L.A. is more than just a traffic violation, at that point. It's endangering lives, recklessly.

" You can tell a lot of it comes from a lack of perspective on American driving"

I lived in the U.S... people don't drive 100mph-120mph in urban megacities, 99% of the time. We're not even talking about highways.

United States of American lawyer states this:

"Reckless endangerment is a crime consisting of behavior that creates a substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person. To win conviction on a charge of reckless endangerment, the prosecution must prove that the defendant engaged in conduct that was reckless. They must also show that the conduct created a significant or substantial risk of serious bodily injury or death to another person.
 

Conviction does not require proof that the defendant intended specifically to cause the harm that resulted or could have resulted. Rather, the prosecution must only prove that the defendant acted in a way that showed a complete disregard for the consequences of their actions and that the consequences were foreseeable. A charge of reckless endangerment may be made as a result of a defendant’s actions in various contexts, such as cases of domestic violence, car accidents, construction site accidents, and hospital abuse."

Reckless Endangerment can be treated as a misdemeanor OR a Class C Felony. The people driving 100mph-120mph should and could qualify for a felony charge.

Edit: Seems to not apply in California. So, what's the solution? Point system sounds great, but I think people's licenses should be seized if they drive recklessly. These offenses should be taken seriously, as it could lead to serious bodily harm, even death. It is American culture, just not Californian culture, when it comes to "Reckless Endangerment", though. It's ridiculous that people can speed 100mph-120mph, throughout Los Santos, without any serious repercussions beyond paying a fine that is a mere pest to those who already have a lot of wealth, which is most of the people on this server.

Permanent removal of one's driver's license if they speed in a way that it endangers lives, after, maybe, one suspension prior, depending on the offense.

Edited February 20 by DLimit

[Halcyon]

Hit them where it hurts most. Seize their cars, temporarily once or twice then permanently. The lack of consequences is what allows the server to be in the state that it is when it comes to driving. 

[Soyuz]

21 minutes ago, Halcyon said:

Hit them where it hurts most. Seize their cars, temporarily once or twice then permanently. The lack of consequences is what allows the server to be in the state that it is when it comes to driving. 

 

Seize their cars and make them go to traffic court to get them back! 👹

[Jeroen]

A few years ago this would be seen as an OOC issue, and that cops aren't meant to "police the server".

But when you'd suggest the admin team to get tools to monitor individuals racing at 120 mph+ in the city center in dimension zero, the staff team would respond with saying that they only administrate reactively and don't proactively spectate individuals, even in dimension 0 and even if they're going 120 miles per hour in the city center they wouldn't spectate due to privacy concerns. I always had the opinion that these concerns for privacy are null and void if you're going 120 miles per hour in the city center in dim 0.

 

I'm glad that public opinion is swaying, because groups have gotten a lot more bold and the problem is much worse than it was a few years ago.

Edited February 20 by Jeroen

[radreaper100]

12 hours ago, Valkyria said:

 

already exists

 

brazy haha

no sasp is not sahp 

[Barbary]

There is another thing to tack onto this, in a lot of cases it's easier to just keep driving. Say you're going 120+ MPH down Hawick Avenue. Just straight shot from one end Del Pierro to Mirror Park. While you're doing this, some marked cruiser from the LSPD or the LSSD sees you. They hit their lights and sirens and try to pull out.

 

By the time you're even halfway up you speed, they're gone. Even if you're in a Buffalo or a Torrance, they're gone. Even if your plan was just to give them a speeding ticket, they are g o n e. The ease of access to vehicle mods and tuneups has given everyone access to cars that could probably maintain speed at freakin' Daytona. Once you get a fast car, there is no reason to stop for anything. Hell for some people there's even incentive, they'll get a fun police chase out of it. And /reporting usually leads to nothing because the admins on duty already have a ton to deal with as is.

 

So what's the solution? Up the restrictions on car upgrades? That'll be a deathblow to mechanic RP. Buff Law Enforcement cars? That's considered Play to Win.

 

There is no reason to follow traffic laws on this server. You face no repercussions, IC or OOC, that can't be shrugged off or outright ignored. Honestly I'd be willing to bet that most people are fine with that too, with how often (and I'll admit I do this too) people agree to mutually void a crash because they flat out cannot be fucked to deal with the repercussions.

 

This is why I'm serious about saying we need more traffic enforcement. People will do whatever they can get away with, and as much as it heavily blurs IC and OOC, you need to create some kind of tangible risk to driving like an asshole.

 

Either make SAHP a thing or give the PD/SD traffic departments a new set of teeth. Hell, do both.

[Power]

12 hours ago, joshua said:

guess they should rewrite the definition of vehicular endangerment which infers the exact opposite of what you just said lol

 

Any person driving or operating a vehicle and causing severe endangerment, actual physical harm, or risk of physical harm to pedestrians, and/or driving in a manner that places the public in grave danger. 

Vehicular Endangerment often gets overused on this server and there has been debate in the legal community of this server as whether theoretical danger constitutes the charge. Meaning say you are driving and accidently drive up on the sidewalk does a pedestrian actually need to be on the sidewalk and actually in endangered for the charge to be valid. And your argument here doesn't really make sense because if this charge was applicable to what the complaint of this post was there would be no need for this thread people who be getting charged with this and problem solved right?

 

8 hours ago, DLimit said:

"Felony charges for traffic violations are unrealistic"

Try speeding 100mph-120mph within Los Angeles. MANY of these are reckless endangerment and should be portrayed as such, and maybe people will start driving more properly. 

"It is near impossible to get charged with a felony for a traffic violation"

Speeding 100mph-120mph in downtown L.A. is more than just a traffic violation, at that point. It's endangering lives, recklessly.

" You can tell a lot of it comes from a lack of perspective on American driving"

I lived in the U.S... people don't drive 100mph-120mph in urban megacities, 99% of the time. We're not even talking about highways.

United States of American lawyer states this:

"Reckless endangerment is a crime consisting of behavior that creates a substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person. To win conviction on a charge of reckless endangerment, the prosecution must prove that the defendant engaged in conduct that was reckless. They must also show that the conduct created a significant or substantial risk of serious bodily injury or death to another person.
 

Conviction does not require proof that the defendant intended specifically to cause the harm that resulted or could have resulted. Rather, the prosecution must only prove that the defendant acted in a way that showed a complete disregard for the consequences of their actions and that the consequences were foreseeable. A charge of reckless endangerment may be made as a result of a defendant’s actions in various contexts, such as cases of domestic violence, car accidents, construction site accidents, and hospital abuse."

Reckless Endangerment can be treated as a misdemeanor OR a Class C Felony. The people driving 100mph-120mph should and could qualify for a felony charge.

Edit: Seems to not apply in California. So, what's the solution? Point system sounds great, but I think people's licenses should be seized if they drive recklessly. These offenses should be taken seriously, as it could lead to serious bodily harm, even death. It is American culture, just not Californian culture, when it comes to "Reckless Endangerment", though. It's ridiculous that people can speed 100mph-120mph, throughout Los Santos, without any serious repercussions beyond paying a fine that is a mere pest to those who already have a lot of wealth, which is most of the people on this server.

Permanent removal of one's driver's license if they speed in a way that it endangers lives, after, maybe, one suspension prior, depending on the offense.

 

Glad you saw the issue of using California as an example then reference a law that does not exist in California. Being from the U.S does really mean anything if you you don't drive, or have dealt with the traffic courts in this country. Are you saying that you have that perspective? A lot of people on this server that don't even have a license saying how things should be (Not saying that is you.) I've gotten several speeding tickets for going as much as 25 above the speed limit and with a traffic lawyer all it ended up was with a fine and no permanent repercussions. 

"I lived in the U.S... people don't drive 100mph-120mph in urban megacities,"

I think you need to do a little research. Happens all the time especially in big cities. Mostly at night its a huge problem especially with stolen cars. The penal codes allows for permanent seizure of vehicles, impoundings, the issue is people cycle through characters so much there traffic/criminal record never gets to a point where that happens. 

[DLimit]

17 minutes ago, Power said:

Vehicular Endangerment often gets overused on this server and there has been debate in the legal community of this server as whether theoretical danger constitutes the charge. Meaning say you are driving and accidently drive up on the sidewalk does a pedestrian actually need to be on the sidewalk and actually in endangered for the charge to be valid. And your argument here doesn't really make sense because if this charge was applicable to what the complaint of this post was there would be no need for this thread people who be getting charged with this and problem solved right?

 

 

Glad you saw the issue of using California as an example then reference a law that does not exist in California. Being from the U.S does really mean anything if you you don't drive, or have dealt with the traffic courts in this country. Are you saying that you have that perspective? A lot of people on this server that don't even have a license saying how things should be (Not saying that is you.) I've gotten several speeding tickets for going as much as 25 above the speed limit and with a traffic lawyer all it ended up was with a fine and no permanent repercussions. 

"I lived in the U.S... people don't drive 100mph-120mph in urban megacities,"

I think you need to do a little research. Happens all the time especially in big cities. Mostly at night its a huge problem especially with stolen cars. The penal codes allows for permanent seizure of vehicles, impoundings, the issue is people cycle through characters so much there traffic/criminal record never gets to a point where that happens. 

" think you need to do a little research. Happens all the time especially in big cities. Mostly at night its a huge problem especially with stolen cars. The penal codes allows for permanent seizure of vehicles, impoundings, the issue is people cycle through characters so much there traffic/criminal record never gets to a point where that happens."

Mostly along highways and side-streets. Doesn't happen in urban megacities packed with traffic. Doesn't happen as often as you make it out to be. I live in a megacity. You're really attempting to defend and justify people driving 100-125mph every single place that they travel, including regular civilians who aren't even engaged in vehicular theft, instead of just admitting that it is overdone and abused. For every vehicle that's stolen with a person driving 100-120mph, there's millions that don't. People speeding day and night, every single time that they enter a vehicle. To even compare LS to LA, at this point, is unnecessary as LS doesn't properly emulate Los Angeles in turns of crime rates and speeding vehicles. Hence, the vehicular laws shouldn't, either. They should be stricter.  Maybe the Law should be enforced, more, that their licenses gets seized.

Seize their licenses. If they NC? Then, they NC. 

Edited February 21 by DLimit