Lengthen Prison Sentences [G]

[voucher]

6 minutes ago, Triple Seven said:

Regardless the crime rate on the server is too high and frankly, it's because too big a part of the community roleplays a criminal. There is no balance. People not roleplaying the consequences of their actions and experiences ICly (prison as one example), which is part of their choice of RP, (if you're a criminal you can just anticipate having to deal with getting caught sometime and the consequences linked to it) is a real issue. As mentioned before me, you can't just expect a civilian to roleplay getting a gun pointed at them as a grave incident when they're already 'used' to it due to the sheer amount of robberies that take place.

The crime rate is high because no one is doing anything about it. I think that the government and LEO factions are now trying to take steps to do investigations but it hasn't been like that. RICO laws and investigations are how you lower the crime rate, not something that is literally an OOC punishment for illegal RPers and won't help.

[Triple Seven]

Just now, voucher said:

The crime rate is high because no one is doing anything about it. I think that the government and LEO factions are now trying to take steps to do investigations but it hasn't been like that. RICO laws and investigations are how you lower the crime rate, not something that is literally an OOC punishment for illegal RPers and won't help.

How is roleplaying a part of the choice to play a criminal an OOC punishment? If people stopped cherry-picking their RP as a criminal and just followed through with the consequences in the life of their character to develop said character actively and add experience in a prison environment, that would no doubt help massively. Of course there are issues with lack of prosecution and power from official legal factions, that is basically another topic however.

[Smilesville]

2 minutes ago, voucher said:

The crime rate is high because no one is doing anything about it. I think that the government and LEO factions are now trying to take steps to do investigations but it hasn't been like that. RICO laws and investigations are how you lower the crime rate, not something that is literally an OOC punishment for illegal RPers and won't help.

Again - where does everyone get the idea that RPing with fellow criminals in jail is a punishment?

 

The policing organizations have no incentive to perform investigations precisely because the sentencing is so lax - why investigate something for four days when the outcome of a successful conviction is twelve hours in prison? If there were an avenue to actually solve the problem IC that would be splendid, but if you mention that "the punishment for armed robbery is 4 days in prison" IC, you'll get slapped by a staff member.

 

That necessitates an OOC solution.

[voucher]

8 minutes ago, Triple Seven said:

How is roleplaying a part of the choice to play a criminal an OOC punishment? If people stopped cherry-picking their RP as a criminal and just followed through with the consequences in the life of their character to develop said character actively and add experience in a prison environment, that would no doubt help massively. Of course there are issues with lack of prosecution and power from official legal factions, that is basically another topic however.

I would see your point, but this isn't going to help prison roleplay, in fact it will probably hurt it. As someone who has played in prison, there is already enough bad RPers who show up and ruin the fun as well as people namechanging and CKing to avoid prison. I don't think that this is something that will promote prison roleplay and it's literally just going to result in a lot of people throwing away characters because they caught a month long sentence for robbery. Instead of developing one criminal character that can last months, characters are only gonna last a couple of weeks before they get deleted for catching a felony case.

11 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

Again - where does everyone get the idea that RPing with fellow criminals in jail is a punishment?

 

The policing organizations have no incentive to perform investigations precisely because the sentencing is so lax - why investigate something for four days when the outcome of a successful conviction is twelve hours in prison? If there were an avenue to actually solve the problem IC that would be splendid, but if you mention that "the punishment for armed robbery is 4 days in prison" IC, you'll get slapped by a staff member.

 

That necessitates an OOC solution.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but investigation is welcomed by any good illegal RPer. Also, we have a thirty point system on the server based on the California three strikes law where if you accumulate enough criminal points you can catch a life sentence. 

[VoodooC]

I’m not too sure on sentence lengths so I wont comment on that.

 

It’s true though, people who view prison RP as ‘OOC punishment’ have the wrong  view on RP. The point is an accurate as can be portrayal of a criminal lifestyle, prison is part of that. 
 

But if you get involved with prison RP you’ll find it can be quite fun getting into the politics of the yard. If you go into it thinking of it as an OOC punishment then you’re not gonna have fun. Prison RP is flawed, I did a lot of it on LSRP, but the biggest issue I found that made it so tough was people coming in and softly trolling, like lowkey trolling or just blatantly. They’d come in, wouldn’t RP prison politics and they knew damn well they could because they’d be out in 5 hours. And that was without time running down offline.

 

The guy who said about investigations is right too, a lot of effort and dragged out RP just for the guy to log for 3 days and be out doing his thing all over. I support longer sentences cos it promotes good criminal and prison RP. Maybe I would be weary to drive across the city with 2 ounces of coke and a pistol if I knew I’d face some time and was known to IC police, I’d maybe take the back routes, hire someone to take it for me, who knows? 
 

the best RP I had was gang unit on LSRP shaking me and my friends down all the time, busting our balls. But that was in a group where the norm was to stay and RP in prison for a while if caught, so the stakes of getting caught were high as I’d be taken off the streets for a while. Was fun, people should try it.

[Rascal Doporto]

Something needs to be done but I don't think lengthening is the way to go. You have to keep in mind how fast things move on the server in the sense of roleplay and the things that happen around the community. In the space of four days, or even nine hours for that matter, you and the people you roleplay with or the faction you are in can go from being full of activity and going strong to being nothing at all. People do need to be held accountable for their actions IC but I believe there are other ways of going about it, mainly the idea that's been posted here. 

 

 

An addition to this could be for people who plead not guilty/no contest on a charge don't have their time in jail while on trial removed from their overall time. Yes it happens in real life but that's because in some trials it can take up to a year or longer to reach a conclusion and be found guilty but on here sometimes a murder case is over in a matter of hours (a bit of an exaggeration but you get the point). Not only will this "add" to the time a player is in jail/off the streets but it also gives the justification of going through a whole court process, pd/sd gathering evidence and so forth.

 

You might be thinking "what about the people who plead guilty and go straight to jail?" 9/10 those are the people who aren't interested in doing further roleplay, while they should be punished and held accountable as much as anyone they're also the majority of the players who make jail unbearable with OOC nonsense, trolling and just straight up show that they don't want to be there. I'd rather not have those people in jail so they don't get the chance to bother decent rp'ers and force us into a lock down every chance they get.

 

 

 

[VoodooC]

Introduce RICO acts make it scriptable and if you get caught you've gotta do a month, two month whatever but a long bit of prison time. Don't just make it so any tom dick or harry can bash you a 1-3 month sentence either. Make it based around a full investigation, where the gang unit/investigative unit posts development screenshots constantly to a PRIVATE thread only they can see detailing the investigation, pieces of evidence etc. Admin must approve before they act upon the investigation and arrest, then take to court and trial giving lawyer RP judge RP etc. It'd create loads of RP. Admin approval checks for metagaming, powergaming, all that kinda stuff.

 

Now that would make criminal RP more fun, can you imagine if your gang is getting sloppy and blatantly asking businesses outright if they can extort? And 60% of the gang gets sent down on RICO for a month? I'm sure they'd be a lot more careful in the future. It'd create a power vacuum in the gang where people try and pick up the remains, take over certain trades whilst people are away, fuck peoples wives, all things that happen IRL when criminals go to prison and would be absolutely great RP opportunities. Instead it's like, oh wow I got caught with a gun, shame not one of the people I sell large quantities of drugs to or businesses I extort will even notice cos I'll be back on the streets by tomorrow.  Instead it should be "fuck I got caught on a RICO/with a gun and Firstname_Lastname has been trying to move on my drugs business for a while, he's gonna take over whilst I'm gone" Also would lead to criminals meeting other criminals in jail, networking out of their social circle they usually roleplay in which, let's be real, is the same group day in day out for most people. Creates more RP all around in an infinite amount of ways, either lengthier sentences or a functioning RICO act would create shit tons.

 

Would give criminals more incentive to be discreet instead of going on 'List open businesses' and working their way down, asking each single one to extort cash because there's absolutely no consequences for doing so. Would also mean prison have a bit more depth to it. The issue I found rping in prison on lsrp was also the only people you interact with are active prison RPers and it was rare you'd deal with bikers, la cosa nostra, and other misc rpers cos they just AFK their sentence down.

[Xaleya]

On 1/27/2021 at 12:09 PM, Smilesville said:

By statistics, Los Santos outstrips places like Afghanistan and Venezuela in terms of murders and violent crime fairly easily - and there's really no other way to bring that under control than to increase the amount of time characters spend behind bars when convicted of violent crimes.

Venezuela is a heaven compared to Los Santos, actually Colombia has a higher criminality rate and more dangerous btw, since if you are robbed and your pockets are empty... You will be stabbed until you die as answer, meanwhile in Venezuela you can walk freely most of times if you know where you are exactly. Compared with Colombia than every single block of the city is controlled by a diff gang, same with drug dealers wandering all the zones, even offering drugs right chasing every single civillian for drugs just like in GTAW.

Yeah, im from Venezuela and my family was in Colombia. 
Know how it works but comparing it with Venezuela is bad comparison.

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Xaleya

[Smilesville]

On 1/28/2021 at 11:06 PM, Rascal Doporto said:

You have to keep in mind how fast things move on the server in the sense of roleplay and the things that happen around the community. In the space of four days, or even nine hours for that matter, you and the people you roleplay with or the faction you are in can go from being full of activity and going strong to being nothing at all. [...] You might be thinking "what about the people who plead guilty and go straight to jail?" 9/10 those are the people who aren't interested in doing further roleplay, while they should be punished and held accountable as much as anyone they're also the majority of the players who make jail unbearable with OOC nonsense, trolling and just straight up show that they don't want to be there. I'd rather not have those people in jail so they don't get the chance to bother decent rp'ers and force us into a lock down every chance they get.

Just like in real life. Go to prison for 10-15 years, and you won't recognize the world when you get out. It's not as if there's no way to connect with the outside world while you're in prison either. Removing the concept of "time served" would only entrench the idea that the only option for an illegal RPer is to plead guilty - as I guarantee any "not guilty" plea will result in your staying in prison much longer than a guilty plea would.

 

With regards to bad behavior in jail: what makes you think the outside world wants those people either? At least in jail, there's more supervision around what takes place so they'll get booted from the server faster when they act out - or if we lengthen prison sentences, perhaps they'll remain logged off the entire time instead. Either outcome is a win, isn't it?

 

On 1/29/2021 at 7:40 PM, VoodooC said:

Introduce RICO acts make it scriptable and if you get caught you've gotta do a month, two month whatever but a long bit of prison time. Don't just make it so any tom dick or harry can bash you a 1-3 month sentence either. Make it based around a full investigation, where the gang unit/investigative unit posts development screenshots constantly to a PRIVATE thread only they can see detailing the investigation, pieces of evidence etc. Admin must approve before they act upon the investigation and arrest, then take to court and trial giving lawyer RP judge RP etc. It'd create loads of RP. Admin approval checks for metagaming, powergaming, all that kinda stuff.

This all sounds well and good, but this does little to address the spate of armed robberies committed with impunity because they know they'll be out of prison in four days, max. You're never going to entice someone to behave in a realistic manner without a realistic consequence for their actions. Good RPers will recognize the jail time as a chance to network, while poor RPers will view it as a punishment and log off.

 

Like I said, while all of this sounds great, you'd also be pushing organized illegal RPers into prisons for much longer than your everyday stickup crews by a factor of five, at least - at which point, why not just make the entirety of sentencing more realistic?

[ThomasNoman]

100% +1 from me. The jail time should be longer to a degree.