Update the Approach to Handling Player Reports

[eTaylor]

3 minutes ago, Taina said:

 

In an ideal RP community, this would be correct.  But the fact of the matter is that we have a community full of players of all kinds, with different levels of understanding and perspectives, with varying communication skills and yes, difficult personalities.  All of these things make each report unique and can contribute to how complicated it can be for the handling admin to sort out.  

I disagree. If you report someone you cite the rule. If you didn’t break the rule you explain how you didn’t break it. The idea that people need 5 paragraphs to understand why you killed someone is stupid imo. 

[Taina]

 

29 minutes ago, Moonsong said:

Quote

I imagine it'd be less problematic to simply make it so that the reported player is alerted to the report once the report is made public.  

We already make every effort to inform reported parties, except of course when they're already aware of the report.

Yes, what I meant by this is that informing the reported player about the report once it's made public and they're free to respond would be more appropriate than leaving their hands tied when they're made aware that there's a report on them that is locked until an admin can get to it.  However, my point there is moot because...

 

29 minutes ago, Moonsong said:

Keeping a report private until it's picked up would still have the same effect, the reporting player is often still going to tell them about the report anyway and it's going to annoy them more by not being able to see it. Might be a little bit blunt here, but if players are getting stressed about being forum reported then I'd politely suggest players not to break the rules in the first place then it would certainly mitigate the number of reports they face. If the report is frivolous, we will clearly see it as such  (trust me, it's really obvious) so players needn't stress if they're innocent.

 

Having the reports restricted (not private) until it's picked up would be a fair compromise and still allow us to steer reports in the right direction. I'm not even sure it can be a combination of both due to software limitations, it may need to be either one or the other as ban appeals are. Those are kept private for entirely different reasons however. 

 

 

29 minutes ago, Moonsong said:

They are handed over to different admins when a conflict of interest arises, or it needs to be passed over to a sub-team like IFM or property management. In particular with IFM reports, those can take a bit longer due to their complexities and long history with said factions. I think having to wait for reports to be handed off to specific admins would only serve to increase waiting times and increase workload on higher level admins who would really be the only ones qualified to decide who's suitable for each report. I get where you're coming from though, it may sound reasonable on paper but practically it's not gonna work.

 

All of this is exactly what I was hoping for by posting this suggestion.  I realized from the start that there may be points that I raised that were entirely wrong because I'm working off limited information - and that's okay.  I'm glad to see a discussion happening about this subject on this forum, with players and admins contributing thoughts and ideas so we can reach a better understanding of what would work and what wouldn't.  

 

It's clear that my suggestion, as I presented it above, wouldn't work as well as some of us would have hoped but I think it's clear that something needs to change in the way reports are currently handled.  As such, I'm entirely on board with immediately locking reports as soon as they go up.

 

I also hope that other parts of my suggestion are kept it mind and possibly serve as a basis for further improvements.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Taina
more detail

[Taina]

8 minutes ago, eTaylor said:

I disagree. If you report someone you cite the rule. If you didn’t break the rule you explain how you didn’t break it. The idea that people need 5 paragraphs to understand why you killed someone is stupid imo. 

Oh, I agree with that point as well.  Which is why I believe that allowing the handling admin to be the very first reply on a report would be ideal - it would prevent people from replying with useless information.  

 

In the reply you quoted, I was only trying to explain why I am against allowing even the reported player to respond to the report before an admin can get involved - because that player would reply with useless information which would only prompt the reporting party to reply with more useless information, which contributes to the chaos the handling admin must sort through, even if there are only 2 posts on the thread.

[knppel]

The one smart rule addition lsrp had over the past  few years was "Do not post on reports unless asked by an admin to do so".

 

I'd highly recommend to adapt this, as currently the workload of taking on a report for admins is quite overabundant, with the average report leading to a full page of arguing posts before an admin locks it and eventually reviews it.

It'd not even require to hide reports, as a simple promoted (and in case, enforced) rule will easily prevent people from arguing over stuff admins don't even wanna know.

 

If we're super strict, notifying  other players of reports on my own end is nothing but backseat moderating (and typically has exactly that effect- not benefitial, rarely solving the situation).

Before anything gets even argued about, admins should take the decision wether a report is even worth to be argued about, if the reported party has to be notified at all, and if/what they have to explain.

 

This would ease up the workload of admins, as well as make the report section better accessible for players, as they'd not have to catch up on arguments, but respond to actual questions, if requested to do so.

Edited December 27, 2020 by knppel

[Moonsong]

1 hour ago, knppel said:

The one smart rule addition lsrp had over the past  few years was "Do not post on reports unless asked by an admin to do so".

 

I'd highly recommend to adapt this, as currently the workload of taking on a report for admins is quite overabundant, with the average report leading to a full page of arguing posts before an admin locks it and eventually reviews it.

It'd not even require to hide reports, as a simple promoted (and in case, enforced) rule will easily prevent people from arguing over stuff admins don't even wanna know.

 

If we're super strict, notifying  other players of reports on my own end is nothing but backseat moderating (and typically has exactly that effect- not benefitial, rarely solving the situation).

Before anything gets even argued about, admins should take the decision wether a report is even worth to be argued about, if the reported party has to be notified at all, and if/what they have to explain.

 

This would ease up the workload of admins, as well as make the report section better accessible for players, as they'd not have to catch up on arguments, but respond to actual questions, if requested to do so.

This is something I already enforce on reports I handle, except where both sides are being civil. It can actually be beneficial to let both parties to discuss things between eachother under the right conditions as sometimes players can resolve things between eachother, realise there's been misunderstandings or just establish some facts that you can't always get in the heat of the moment during rp. Although sadly it's quite rare to see happen, it can nontheless still be beneficial to allow SOME discussion.

 

Generally though if people are just repetitively arguing, spitting nonsense and backseat moderating eachother, that's when I'll tell them not to post unless asked. I don't like trashing reports unless I actually have to though because amidst all the nonsense there can be legitimate claims of rulebreaking that's too serious to ignore by trashing the report, sometimes on both sides. This is why it makes it difficult when people are arguing as it can distract from the facts as well as undermine the report itself, plus we have more to read incase there is actually something relevant. 

 

It's not always as straight forward as it may seem when dealing with reports like these, but there are perhaps some improvements that could be made in how disruptive behavior in reports are handled, although it does usually get stamped out pretty quickly once noticed.

[Taina]

11 minutes ago, SWAE said:

I don't agree with the reports being private, I myself read them and see how they are handled so I can take a look on how certain events are to be taken care of without creating any issues.

In the suggestion I outlined in the OP, the report would only be private until it is picked up by the handling admin.  Once picked up by the handling admin, it'd be made public for the reported party to reply to and for all to see - with the admin having the ability to guide the discussion from the start. I never thought to make the report entirely private - I'd disagree with that, too. 

 

In other words, you wouldn't be missing anything.  You'd still get to see every report the way that you do now - only less cluttered with replies.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Taina

[Rushing]

On 12/27/2020 at 7:53 PM, Taina said:

Step 1. Make it so that player reports are submitted privately and only visible to the player submitting the report and admins (much like the forums for ban appeals or faction-related issues). This would prevent threads from becoming oversaturated with information (much of it irrelevant) before an admin can even take a look.

I disagree with this as in some cases, the report can be concluded between the reported and reporting party without an admin's intervention. 

 

I agree with the rest of the suggestion. +1