UCP Vehicle Leases Limited to Certain People

[Epic]

Hi,

 

The focus of this topic is the vehicle leasing option that is currently available on the UCP. The vehicle list offers loads of different types of vehicles, from trucks to lawn mowers. I myself have applied for a vehicle via this system, and was a little shocked to find I had been declined due to my character having a record. 

 

I couldn't see this rule or requirement written anywhere, so took to the Property Management discord to query it:

 

 

So, I have a couple of issues with the stance presented by PM.

 

1. You are unfairly limiting a group of players (Anyone who has a criminal record) based on the previous behaviour of a select number of players, or based on speculation about what you think may happen.

2. You are generalising everyone who's character has a criminal record as someone who would obtain said car, and use it to "evade and be reckless".

3. Criminal Records/Characters pasts have a huge part in story lines, whether they are currently involved in illegal activities or are now enjoying a fully legitimate lifestyle as a product of their reform inside jail - appears as though people who have criminal records are being sub-par some how?

 

There is also another slant to this, given that a large number of the vehicles in the UCP are commercial vehicles, or vehicles that can be used for businesses, what happens should Ex-Criminal A (we'll label him this for now) come out of jail with an interest in lets say gardening following his recent activities inside where he did something similar. Ex-Criminal A comes out of prison, applies for a garden mower to kick off his new idea and is declined because he has a criminal record. What type of RP is Ex-Criminal A now limited to? Ahh yes... More criminal/Illegal RP!

 

Interested to hear if people are aware of this, and also what their views on limiting a large part of vehicle procurement to a specific audience based on an choice of story line? 

 

 

 

 

[Xizzy]

+1 I don't think that criminal record has anything to do with the vehicle your character drives.

[misTake]

I agree partially. If someone WAS a criminal and now he developed his character to run legal businesses, then it should be okay. But for active criminal involved in illegal roleplay should be restricted because Bombie said it already, they will probably evade with high end cars which is not really realistic.

 

But all in all, criminal record shouldn't be a problem when leasing a vehicle.

[Epic]

16 minutes ago, Beatrix said:

I agree partially. If someone WAS a criminal and now he developed his character to run legal businesses, then it should be okay. But for active criminal involved in illegal roleplay should be restricted because Bombie said it already, they will probably evade with high end cars which is not really realistic.

 

But all in all, criminal record shouldn't be a problem when leasing a vehicle.

Totally agreed, it's not realistic. That can be filtered out during the highly detailed application section that you have to follow to get the car in the first place though. 

 

[SaintBatemanofWallStreet]

I 100% support them not giving out vehicles to characters who are felons or even frequent misdemeanor flyers.

Being a felon in the United States is extremely debilitating to any progression of a person and a lot of people on this server don't understand or don't care. Basically what it comes down to is when you lease or rent property from anyone be it vehicles or a place to live, they have the right to deny you based on your criminal record. And there's really nothing you can do about it because it all comes back on the property owner's liability. They don't have to give you their stuff. 

EDIT:

And for the reformed criminal? That usually takes years and years of proof that they have chosen to integrate themselves back into society and become a functioning member again. And that's job history, showing they can handle a credit card, etc.

What it isn't is a month of not going to jail and going "sEe Im ReFoRmEd! PrOmIsE!"

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by SaintBatemanofWallStreet

[Epic]

38 minutes ago, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

I 100% support them not giving out vehicles to characters who are felons or even frequent misdemeanor flyers.

Being a felon in the United States is extremely debilitating to any progression of a person and a lot of people on this server don't understand or don't care. Basically what it comes down to is when you lease or rent property from anyone be it vehicles or a place to live, they have the right to deny you based on your criminal record. And there's really nothing you can do about it because it all comes back on the property owner's liability. They don't have to give you their stuff. 

EDIT:

And for the reformed criminal? That usually takes years and years of proof that they have chosen to integrate themselves back into society and become a functioning member again. And that's job history, showing they can handle a credit card, etc.

What it isn't is a month of not going to jail and going "sEe Im ReFoRmEd! PrOmIsE!"

 

Ok I hear you. 

 

I have purchased and leased several vehicles in real life from garages and dealerships, never once have I been asked if I have a criminal record or asked in any way to prove that I don't.

 

Totally agree with you on the reformed criminal, that's why you'd expect to see evidence over months of RP, possible even years in some cases. Again, it's a case of assessing each individual case, not just issuing a blanket statement and saying we are tarring all of the people with this brush.

[Marksman]

Just now, Epic said:

I have purchased and leased several vehicles in real life from garages and dealerships, never once have I been asked if I have a criminal record or asked in any way to prove that I don't.

Quote

Location: UK

 

42 minutes ago, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

Being a felon in the United States

 

[SaintBatemanofWallStreet]

Just now, Epic said:

Ok I hear you. 

 

I have purchased and leased several vehicles in real life from garages and dealerships, never once have I been asked if I have a criminal record or asked in any way to prove that I don't.

 

Totally agree with you on the reformed criminal, that's why you'd expect to see evidence over months of RP, possible even years in some cases. Again, it's a case of assessing each individual case, not just issuing a blanket statement and saying we are tarring all of the people with this brush.

And some don't always ask. Because if they don't see a 10 year gap in your credit report, it doesn't raise any flags. But if they do, then it might. And then they can ask you. I know where I'm from, if you fill out a loan application, or if you fill out an application to get an apartment or whatever, they ask.

I don't think it's a case by case basis. At least not on on first glance. I think if you want to show that your character is reformed or whatever, then you apply, get told no, and ONLY at that point do you bring forth a ton of screenshots, which you and I both know that the average roleplayer isn't going to have and say "Hey, look. This is an active part of my character's story to be a reformed criminal." or whatever whatever. But by and large, that's not even remotely how it's gonna go. It's gonna go something like this "wHaT Do yOu mEaN I CaN'T HaVe a vAcCa bEcAuSe i hAvE 14 eVaSiOn cHaRgEs? My cHaRaCtEr iS ReFoRmEd aNd hAsN'T GoTtEn aN EvAsIoN ChArGe iN 3 WeEkS. sO CaN I HaVe iT? nO? yOu gUyS ArE UnFaIr!"

[Power]

There social consequences to being a felon. I think its fair to restrict leases from felons.

[Epic]

33 minutes ago, Marksman said:

 

 

Not sure what your trying to point out? I was only sharing my experience and I have been to the states which is exactly why I had to hire a vehicle? Again wasn’t asked for any criminal record information but then again, maybe because I was a tourist and you have to have a clean record to go to the UK from the US anyway. 
 

29 minutes ago, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

I don't think it's a case by case basis. At least not on on first glance. I think if you want to show that your character is reformed or whatever, then you apply, get told no, and ONLY at that point do you bring forth a ton of screenshots, which you and I both know that the average roleplayer isn't going to have and say "Hey, look. This is an active part of my character's story to be a reformed criminal." or whatever whatever. But by and large, that's not even remotely how it's gonna go. It's gonna go something like this "wHaT Do yOu mEaN I CaN'T HaVe a vAcCa bEcAuSe i hAvE 14 eVaSiOn cHaRgEs? My cHaRaCtEr iS ReFoRmEd aNd hAsN'T GoTtEn aN EvAsIoN ChArGe iN 3 WeEkS. sO CaN I HaVe iT? nO? yOu gUyS ArE UnFaIr!"

Yeah I hear you, and with your example at the bottom I totally agree. Evidence wouldn’t be a problem to someone who had done it correctly as they have 6 months - 1yr+ of evidence, parole agreements, terms and conditions of release etc. 
 

I think the issue here is there isn’t an avenue of appeal, the way it has been explained as this is a hard and fast rule. 
 

10 minutes ago, Power said:

There social consequences to being a felon. I think its fair to restrict leases from felons.

absolutely agree there are social consequences but I’d like to see the consequences range based on the crime as they do in real life? Someone who might have been to jail in the past can turn their life around, why shouldn’t they be allowed to here? 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Epic