Some changes for people who does extorting RP

[Aellerix]

Just now, Powley said:

 

If you're paying 3 mobs, 5 gangs and 10 groups of friends per week you should probably speak to one of the groups you pay "protection" to so they can solve your issue for you. 

 

Can't say from the factions I speak to that they extort all over the city, with each faction mostly staying in their own zone, getting to know business owners and even becoming friendly with them. 

To give some context from the last three days, since a specific example would add more to the topic than general information.

1. Had Conti drive all the way down to Cypress Flats, from Vinewood or Vespucci or wherever, to extort a used car dealership that, realistically speaking, would barely make any money.
2. Had the serbs come down and be in no way friendly, literally demanding $10,000 per week in an aggressive manner.
3. Had some random gang from Forum Drive dress up in exterminator suits, drive all the way there in a tow truck to tow our cars and demand weekly payments. Again, in no way friendly or helpful.

Maybe 1 out of 100 people do this roleplay for fun and realism, actually want to develop a relationship and thus, create even more roleplay for both parties but the 99 others don't bother with that, only do it for the money (like most people on the server) and only take action if the money is not coming in.

 

Really, why would you go help out a business that has issues (and you're extorting) when you can... not... and just sit in 'da hood', sell some guns and drugs and make even more money? It's a vicious circle. Reporting them shouldn't be on the business owners, spending 80% of their online time gathering evidence and writing essays for forum reports on different random people, but rather be supervised by the staff team in one way or another.

 

My best bet is to have a few factions with permission to extort. Make an application system, select 3 out of the 5 mobs or whatever, and that's it. Otherwise, everyone's a mobster.

[Tsarna]

On 6/29/2020 at 1:46 PM, Deddo said:

This is literally complaining about a thing that happens IRL daily and of course is unfair because it's organized by criminals. There's a reason no one really fights extorters in real life. It's unfair, it's illegal.

Please do show me the statistics, that every business in Los Angels (Los Santos) is extorted - do it. I will be waiting. The thing is, when admins, rightly, ask for realism in everything, then there should be realism also around the city, where we play in. But right now - they go like Scouts door to door and ask for protection money: that does not happen IRL.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Tsarna

[Perstephone]

extortion

/ɪkˈstɔːʃ(ə)n,ɛkˈstɔːʃ(ə)n/

noun

1. the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

    

    

   It's the literal translation of the word, you can't have extortion without threats and threats are empty if they are never followed though. CK apps work both ways, the only time a business owner would be CK'd without one is for failing to show fear. Which is poor RP. In a city with the crime statistics of LS, it would be absolute insanity to stand up to an illegal faction as a singular store owner. It does seem unfair. But if you are paying protection, that's what it is. It's not a tax. You have people you can call if someone else causes you problems. If you don't call them, that's on you.  

    

   Should store owners be granted carte blanche to CK criminals? No. That's a ridiculous suggestion. 

[Powley]

19 hours ago, Aellerix said:

To give some context from the last three days, since a specific example would add more to the topic than general information.

1. Had Conti drive all the way down to Cypress Flats, from Vinewood or Vespucci or wherever, to extort a used car dealership that, realistically speaking, would barely make any money.
2. Had the serbs come down and be in no way friendly, literally demanding $10,000 per week in an aggressive manner.
3. Had some random gang from Forum Drive dress up in exterminator suits, drive all the way there in a tow truck to tow our cars and demand weekly payments. Again, in no way friendly or helpful.

Maybe 1 out of 100 people do this roleplay for fun and realism, actually want to develop a relationship and thus, create even more roleplay for both parties but the 99 others don't bother with that, only do it for the money (like most people on the server) and only take action if the money is not coming in.

 

Really, why would you go help out a business that has issues (and you're extorting) when you can... not... and just sit in 'da hood', sell some guns and drugs and make even more money? It's a vicious circle. Reporting them shouldn't be on the business owners, spending 80% of their online time gathering evidence and writing essays for forum reports on different random people, but rather be supervised by the staff team in one way or another.

 

My best bet is to have a few factions with permission to extort. Make an application system, select 3 out of the 5 mobs or whatever, and that's it. Otherwise, everyone's a mobster.

 

I can't speak for any of these factions but I do find it weird that two of those factions would go such a distance to extort you. 

 

Factions are more inclined to help you if you help them. 

[Aellerix]

24 minutes ago, Perstephone said:

extortion

/ɪkˈstɔːʃ(ə)n,ɛkˈstɔːʃ(ə)n/

noun

1. the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

    

    

   It's the literal translation of the word, you can't have extortion without threats and threats are empty if they are never followed though. CK apps work both ways, the only time a business owner would be CK'd without one is for failing to show fear. Which is poor RP. In a city with the crime statistics of LS, it would be absolute insanity to stand up to an illegal faction as a singular store owner. It does seem unfair. But if you are paying protection, that's what it is. It's not a tax. You have people you can call if someone else causes you problems. If you don't call them, that's on you.  

    

   Should store owners be granted carte blanche to CK criminals? No. That's a ridiculous suggestion. 

That's a whole different discussion, regarding showing fear. I think it really depends on your character. You were talking about a small store owner - I'm pretty sure that, ICly, someone in Paleto would have no clue what the mafia does, what extortion is and who those people are. Especially since they try to keep it covert, they introduce themselves as representing who knows what business and demand large sums of money. You would have no IC way to know that that's extortion, unless your character has ties with them, nor what would happen if you did or didn't pay - neither the positive (having someone to call) nor the negative (havign your business burned down).

 

If a skinny, white, city man walks into a boat yard in Sandy Shores and demands a weekly payment in order to pick up the trash, the owner has every right to feel insulted and retaliate. That's not about failing to role-play fear, at all.

[Ink]

16 hours ago, Perstephone said:

extortion

/ɪkˈstɔːʃ(ə)n,ɛkˈstɔːʃ(ə)n/

noun

1. the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

    

    

   It's the literal translation of the word, you can't have extortion without threats and threats are empty if they are never followed though. CK apps work both ways, the only time a business owner would be CK'd without one is for failing to show fear. Which is poor RP. In a city with the crime statistics of LS, it would be absolute insanity to stand up to an illegal faction as a singular store owner. It does seem unfair. But if you are paying protection, that's what it is. It's not a tax. You have people you can call if someone else causes you problems. If you don't call them, that's on you.  

    

   Should store owners be granted carte blanche to CK criminals? No. That's a ridiculous suggestion. 

 

I think roleplaying fear goes both ways. The point that so many people in the community have concurred on is that many criminal roleplayers are failing to roleplay any sort of fear of consequences for their extortion. I have never once heard of a business owner in Los Angeles outside of an immigrant ghetto being extorted by anyone, especially a mafia family. I challenge you to find 3 news articles discussing extortions or attempted extortions happening in Los Angeles, and I further challenge you to find one which doesn't end in "and has been arrested," "is under indictment," or "has been sentenced to." 

As it stands, many criminal roleplayers on our server are taking full advantage of the OOC limitations of our PD's ability to investigate and build casefiles against RICO violations. They know the odds of any consequences befalling their character are really slim, so their character feels free to brazenly walk into any business, threaten indiscriminately, and make bones with any random shop owner even though this does not happen at all in modern day American metropolises. It just doesn't.

Currently, all IC and OOC consequences for extortion fall on legal roleplayers, and many criminal roleplayers are just treating this like a passive money farm.

[Zayyy]

4 hours ago, Ink said:

 

I think roleplaying fear goes both ways. The point that so many people in the community have concurred on is that many criminal roleplayers are failing to roleplay any sort of fear of consequences for their extortion. I have never once heard of a business owner in Los Angeles outside of an immigrant ghetto being extorted by anyone, especially a mafia family. I challenge you to find 3 news articles discussing extortions or attempted extortions happening in Los Angeles, and I further challenge you to find one which doesn't end in "and has been arrested," "is under indictment," or "has been sentenced to." 

As it stands, many criminal roleplayers on our server are taking full advantage of the OOC limitations of our PD's ability to investigate and build casefiles against RICO violations. They know the odds of any consequences befalling their character are really slim, so their character feels free to brazenly walk into any business, threaten indiscriminately, and make bones with any random shop owner even though this does not happen at all in modern day American metropolises. It just doesn't.

Currently, all IC and OOC consequences for extortion fall on legal roleplayers, and many criminal roleplayers are just treating this like a passive money farm.

This. 

[ElDiablo]

7 hours ago, Ink said:

 

I think roleplaying fear goes both ways. The point that so many people in the community have concurred on is that many criminal roleplayers are failing to roleplay any sort of fear of consequences for their extortion. I have never once heard of a business owner in Los Angeles outside of an immigrant ghetto being extorted by anyone, especially a mafia family. I challenge you to find 3 news articles discussing extortions or attempted extortions happening in Los Angeles, and I further challenge you to find one which doesn't end in "and has been arrested," "is under indictment," or "has been sentenced to." 

As it stands, many criminal roleplayers on our server are taking full advantage of the OOC limitations of our PD's ability to investigate and build casefiles against RICO violations. They know the odds of any consequences befalling their character are really slim, so their character feels free to brazenly walk into any business, threaten indiscriminately, and make bones with any random shop owner even though this does not happen at all in modern day American metropolises. It just doesn't.

Currently, all IC and OOC consequences for extortion fall on legal roleplayers, and many criminal roleplayers are just treating this like a passive money farm.

 

^ This, and in my opinion:

 

- We need a turf map to have ethnicities and faction lores properly displayed as it would be of common knowledge IC if X place is a predominant (race) neighborhood at the time.

 

- We need OOC regulations for allowing extortion only to be performed at those turfs by the predominant local faction.

 

- We need OOC regulations for NOT allowing extortion to be performed on areas under logical modern 2020 surveillance (cameras and police reaction virtually everywhere). This is based in Los Angeles in the modern day with modern laws, there's no need for IC movements about these laws, the server just needs to keep up with irl California laws. I was shocked yesterday that cops arrested a friend of mine for carrying 10 grams of marihuana when irl you can carry a full ounce of weed in L.A. legally. Hell even in Mexico you can carry 5 grams.

 

- There should be a CCTV script that works similar to the wire script. A script that captures everything (/me's included since it's a camera and can record actions).

 

These implementations would allow players to, according to them, enjoy the hell out of being extorted and making friends with crime organizations to let their shop owning civilian characters mix with the mob in order to get weaponry on a regular basis (as someone mentioned) or whatever other shady operations they might want to get involved into with the edgy mid-aged guys in tracksuits that sit at their place acting as if they own it while scaring the normal customers away.

 

And for those who want to RP normal business owners from the 2020 in a huge metropolis based in L.A. without having anything to do with Italian/Russian/Mexican/Albanian/Chinese or whatever other organized crime group individuals, to do so in peace as the majority of business owners from L.A. do in real life as @Ink has said so.

 

- Adjust the business land price according to the area that they at as it's also done with houses.

 

This translates to IC common sense; Would you, in real life, place your business in a known dangerous neighborhood? Or would you choose a nice area to prosper?

 

In real life the land price of a safer and nicer area is way higher than those in dangerous areas, therefore the poor immigrants tend to buy what they can which usually is located at those criminal infested ghetto districts. Well, those are the characters that can be realistically extorted.

 

In no real case a victim of extortion does it because they want to, people get extorted because they have no other choice or money to establish in a better place.

 

- When it comes to more severe laws, extortion and murder sentences should be VERY long. The server is a heavy text-based roleplay community, deathmatch and weapons should be barely used or at least the actions involving them should be VERY well planned. There should be more life sentences too and the server's CK rule of not NC'ing or CK'ing and immediately creating a similar character to avoid consequences should be really enforced. 

 

- If many members of a faction get arrested from these charges, they should face a faction shutdown.

 

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by ElDiablo

[Zayyy]

1 hour ago, ElDiablo said:

 

^ This, and in my opinion:

 

- We need a turf map to have ethnicities and faction lores properly displayed as it would be of common knowledge IC if X place is a predominant (race) neighborhood at the time.

 

- We need OOC regulations for allowing extortion only to be performed at those turfs by the predominant local faction.

 

- We need OOC regulations for NOT allowing extortion to be performed on areas under logical modern 2020 surveillance (cameras and police reaction virtually everywhere). This is based in Los Angeles in the modern day with modern laws, there's no need for IC movements about these laws, the server just needs to keep up with irl California laws. I was shocked yesterday that cops arrested a friend of mine for carrying 10 grams of marihuana when irl you can carry a full ounce of weed in L.A. legally. Hell even in Mexico you can carry 5 grams.

 

- There should be a CCTV script that works similar to the wire script. A script that captures everything (/me's included since it's a camera and can record actions).

 

These implementations would allow players to, according to them, enjoy the hell out of being extorted and making friends with crime organizations to let their shop owning civilian characters mix with the mob in order to get weaponry on a regular basis (as someone mentioned) or whatever other shady operations they might want to get involved into with the edgy mid-aged guys in tracksuits that sit at their place acting as if they own it while scaring the normal customers away.

 

And for those who want to RP normal business owners from the 2020 in a huge metropolis based in L.A. without having anything to do with Italian/Russian/Mexican/Albanian/Chinese or whatever other organized crime group individuals, to do so in peace as the majority of business owners from L.A. do in real life as @Ink has said so.

 

- Adjust the business land price according to the area that they at as it's also done with houses.

 

This translates to IC common sense; Would you, in real life, place your business in a known dangerous neighborhood? Or would you choose a nice area to prosper?

 

In real life the land price of a safer and nicer area is way higher than those in dangerous areas, therefore the poor immigrants tend to buy what they can which usually is located at those criminal infested ghetto districts. Well, those are the characters that can be realistically extorted.

 

In no real case a victim of extortion does it because they want to, people get extorted because they have no other choice or money to establish in a better place.

 

- When it comes to more severe laws, extortion and murder sentences should be VERY long. The server is a heavy text-based roleplay community, deathmatch and weapons should be barely used or at least the actions involving them should be VERY well planned. There should be more life sentences too and the server's CK rule of not NC'ing or CK'ing and immediately creating a similar character to avoid consequences should be really enforced. 

 

- If many members of a faction get arrested from these charges, they should face a faction shutdown.

 

 

What this lad said. 100%

[Torlo]

1 hour ago, ElDiablo said:

 

^ This, and in my opinion:

 

- We need a turf map to have ethnicities and faction lores properly displayed as it would be of common knowledge IC if X place is a predominant (race) neighborhood at the time.

 

- We need OOC regulations for allowing extortion only to be performed at those turfs by the predominant local faction.

 

- We need OOC regulations for NOT allowing extortion to be performed on areas under logical modern 2020 surveillance (cameras and police reaction virtually everywhere). This is based in Los Angeles in the modern day with modern laws, there's no need for IC movements about these laws, the server just needs to keep up with irl California laws. I was shocked yesterday that cops arrested a friend of mine for carrying 10 grams of marihuana when irl you can carry a full ounce of weed in L.A. legally. Hell even in Mexico you can carry 5 grams.

 

- There should be a CCTV script that works similar to the wire script. A script that captures everything (/me's included since it's a camera and can record actions).

 

These implementations would allow players to, according to them, enjoy the hell out of being extorted and making friends with crime organizations to let their shop owning civilian characters mix with the mob in order to get weaponry on a regular basis (as someone mentioned) or whatever other shady operations they might want to get involved into with the edgy mid-aged guys in tracksuits that sit at their place acting as if they own it while scaring the normal customers away.

 

And for those who want to RP normal business owners from the 2020 in a huge metropolis based in L.A. without having anything to do with Italian/Russian/Mexican/Albanian/Chinese or whatever other organized crime group individuals, to do so in peace as the majority of business owners from L.A. do in real life as @Ink has said so.

 

- Adjust the business land price according to the area that they at as it's also done with houses.

 

This translates to IC common sense; Would you, in real life, place your business in a known dangerous neighborhood? Or would you choose a nice area to prosper?

 

In real life the land price of a safer and nicer area is way higher than those in dangerous areas, therefore the poor immigrants tend to buy what they can which usually is located at those criminal infested ghetto districts. Well, those are the characters that can be realistically extorted.

 

In no real case a victim of extortion does it because they want to, people get extorted because they have no other choice or money to establish in a better place.

 

- When it comes to more severe laws, extortion and murder sentences should be VERY long. The server is a heavy text-based roleplay community, deathmatch and weapons should be barely used or at least the actions involving them should be VERY well planned. There should be more life sentences too and the server's CK rule of not NC'ing or CK'ing and immediately creating a similar character to avoid consequences should be really enforced. 

 

- If many members of a faction get arrested from these charges, they should face a faction shutdown.

 

 

I'd also like to add that in a thread I read a few days ago about the detectives division in the PD someone stated that they have no intention to shut any illegal factions down. While I understand the sentiment behind it, it also removes them of any consequences or realistic fear at all.