Current State of Extorting Businesses

[Drew McCallum]

Just now, Wolfhound said:

While this is correct about extortion, here comes another question: Why would a mafia based in Vinewood come down to a 24/7 in a poorer neighborhood such as Vespucci where they pretty much won't fufill their end of the bargain about protection and only go there to bully the store clerks for easy pickings?

I am not talking about 24/7’s from my end as that, I do agree to be ridiculous.

 

I am mainly talking about big businesses such as.. bars, coffee shops, casinos and night clubs.

 

24/7’s in my eyes should not be getting extorted as most of them don’t even have an owner, they are there for people to start roleplaying a legal job if they deem fit.

[Ink]

Just now, Drew McCallum said:

This here is absolutely incorrect. 
 

When extortion happens it’s not something to get extreme amounts of monetary compensation, but instead to control a certain area of the map, I know this as I am part of a faction who does this successfully, it’s not about getting 100k a week or whatever absurd amount people think.

 

Extortion is usually well portrayed and realistic, if an organised crime operates within a certain area and they have a business that operates there, they are going to be taxing it there, it happens in real life, it is just the way it is.

As with all things, there will be some better roleplayers and some worse ones. There will be some players who are OOCly considerate about the impact their roleplay has on the storylines of other players. It's possible that you and your faction engage in more considerate and roleplay heavy extortion. It's maybe even possible that your faction realistically engages in a smooth curve of escalation. While this is still highly unrealistic to Los Angeles in 2020, we can wave our hands and say "well this is Los Santos and this is a video game world" because I've seen that the logic of "we're trying to be realistic to LA" versus the "it's just a game and it's not supposed to be 100% realistic" argument sways depending on the topic that people are defending at the time. 

But the fact of the matter is that it is not the case. Just today, two legal characters were CK'd, one by murder and one by suicide, because their roleplay had been entirely hijacked by multiple mafia factions coming to extort them. They were first extorted for 3k/week, that number was upped to 10k/week the following day, and then another faction came by to extort them for 20k/week.

There is no give and take in this roleplay. There is no character development or exchange. There is nothing offered in return. It's a simple robbery roleplay which transcends the server's rules on robbery limits because it's "extortion" and it also allows the faction to apply for ridiculous CKs on people who do not comply. I see a lot of criminal roleplayers in this thread claiming "well it's because legal RPers don't RP fear" but I see very little of them acknowledging that very few criminal roleplayers are RPing fear. I've seen many times on this server criminals brazenly walk into a business, demand the owner, and extort them right in public without any concern of witnesses. 

Full stop: The issue is that there are virtually no consequences for criminals whatsoever. Okay, maybe your character gets caught being really stupid and you go to jail for a little bit. Maybe the police catch you with guns and drugs and you lose them and get a longer sentence. But within a few days you're back out and you and your homies will fucking CK the person who was the target of your extortion. I've not seen any criminal roleplayers get CKed because of being ridiculous with their extortion RP, but lots of legal roleplayers get CKed because their characters did the realistic thing any citizen in 2020 Los Angeles when do when a crackhead comes into their business stupidly demanding money with threats of violence. 

[Drew McCallum]

Just now, Sigma said:

 

I just wanna call the cops and sue people like a normal person would do without getting fucking CK'd.  ?

 

Now this would unrealistic, most properly done crime organisations in real life, would actually pose a threat to shop owners, do you actually think it would be that easy?

The businesses extortion system exists because it’s realistic, and again, I speak for myself and the faction I am in, we don’t go around extorting people for ridiculous amounts, it’s usually small amounts, like 10k a week if that.

 

I don’t really think you could turn around and “sue” a mob boss and expect your life to carry on just like normal.

[Torlo]

Just now, Drew McCallum said:

I am not talking about 24/7’s from my end as that, I do agree to be ridiculous.

 

I am mainly talking about big businesses such as.. bars, coffee shops, casinos and night clubs.

 

24/7’s in my eyes should not be getting extorted as most of them don’t even have an owner, they are there for people to start roleplaying a legal job if they deem fit.

All 24/7s with the exception of 2 are currently leased and have owners, one of my characters is the co owner of the 24/7 in the canals. And the fact that people are allowed to extort a 24/7, which allow me to remind you is based off of 7/11, which is a multi billion dollar company that franchise's stores to owners is insane. How is it at all realistic to extort a 24/7? I'm not just saying this because I'm personally involved, it just makes zero sense. 

[Drew McCallum]

Just now, Torlo said:

All 24/7s with the exception of 2 are currently leased and have owners, one of my characters is the co owner of the 24/7 in the canals. And the fact that people are allowed to extort a 24/7, which allow me to remind you is based off of 7/11, which is a multi billion dollar company that franchise's stores to owners is insane. How is it at all realistic to extort a 24/7? I'm not just saying this because I'm personally involved, it just makes zero sense.

At the end of the day, some people roleplay it properly and some don't.

 

I agree that we can’t have every single John Smith going around extorting whoever they want for whoever much they want, it’s not about monetary compensation but it’s actually for roleplay.  

[Garras Up]

41 minutes ago, Ink said:

You know what is not a threat any average business owner in Los Angeles has to deal with? The god damn mafia showing up and asking for chump change. This isn't the 1960's. That era is over. This isn't the heart of New York City in the early 90's. 

In the real world--at least in the most developed parts of the world--the consequences are just too high for extorting businesses. It would make no sense for criminal enterprises of any degree of professionalism to engage in petty extortion of corner shops, corporate-owned 24/7s (like what?), and so on. Real life organized crime syndicates these days engage in far more profitable and far more easily hidden criminal revenue streams, and use legal businesses to launder the income. 

This isn't Serbia. This isn't Russia. This is a representation of Los Angeles. In the United States we have a highly sophisticated, competent FBI who is dedicated almost entirely to combating racketeering. Our legal system is not thoroughly corrupt like it is in many European countries; if the FBI catches you on racketeering your ass is going away for 10-20 years at minimum. If you go and smash up a business and get caught, you've just served to expose your associates and bring heat on your organization, and for what?

 

25 minutes ago, Torlo said:

You my friend could not be anymore right. People seem to want rp as of they were a mobster in the 60's, I hate to the bearer of bad news but it's 2020. 7/11's are not extorted nor as fast food chains, nor are most businesses for that matter. Stop trying to be a 1960's wise guy, this server is based in 2020.

 

http://theasphaltisland.weebly.com/prose/operation-13-scoops-the-may-2017-mara-salvatruca-raid-and-rico-indictment

 

Just gonna leave this here as proof that extortion is still present in Los Angeles as of the late 2010's, and 2020 aswell. The difference is that it typically happens in neighborhoods with diverse ethnic communities. Salvadoran gangs like MS-13 & 18th Street extort businesses, Armenian Power extorts businesses, some other organisations extort businesses aswell. 

 

Though, this never happens to regular stores like 24/7's and liquor stores. Mainly to places like restaurants, bars, aswell as some unofficial businesses owned by immigrants, such as food stands...

 

People trying to extort 24/7's and Liquor Stores should and can be reported for poor portrayal.

[Ink]

Just now, Drew McCallum said:

Now this would unrealistic, most properly done crime organisations in real life, would actually pose a threat to shop owners, do you actually think it would be that easy?

The businesses extortion system exists because it’s realistic, and again, I speak for myself and the faction I am in, we don’t go around extorting people for ridiculous amounts, it’s usually small amounts, like 10k a week if that.

 

I don’t really think you could turn around and “sue” a mob boss and expect your life to carry on just like normal.

Now is my turn to say that this is incorrect. I am not sure which country in the world you're speaking about, but as someone who has owned businesses in Los Angeles, and who has known many business owners in Los Angeles, none of us, not a single one of us, has ever been approached by a criminal demanding us to pay them protection money. It does not happen.

Real life criminal organizations in the United States do not exercise their power to intimidate on random people because it is too risky. Real world criminal organizations tend to only go after other criminals, or people who have gotten involved in criminal business with them because that person's avenues for legal recourse are limited. 

I again challenge your very assertion that business extortion is realistic. I have never once in all my life, and through my network of well over 300 professionals in Los Angeles, heard of anyone ever once have any interaction whatsoever with a criminal organization. 

Mob bosses do not get "sued" in real life because they don't send their goons to go do stupid, highly visible crimes. Real mob bosses are involved in far more intelligent and lucrative business opportunities which do not expose them and their associates to as much heat as going around and threatening to kill the owners of a flower shop because she won't pay them a thousand dollars a week out of her small profits. 

[Ink]

2 minutes ago, El Ghetto Man said:

 

 

http://theasphaltisland.weebly.com/prose/operation-13-scoops-the-may-2017-mara-salvatruca-raid-and-rico-indictment

 

Just gonna leave this here as proof that extortion is still present in Los Angeles as of the late 2010's, and 2020 aswell. The difference is that it typically happens in neighborhoods with diverse ethnic communities. Salvadoran gangs like MS-13 & 18th Street extort businesses, Armenian Power extorts businesses, some other organisations extort businesses aswell. 

 

Though, this never happens to regular stores like 24/7's and liquor stores. Mainly to places like restaurants, bars, aswell as some unofficial businesses owned by immigrants, such as food stands...

 

People trying to extort 24/7's and Liquor Stores should and can be reported for poor portrayal.

 

I will point out two things here. One which you already pointed out, and one which you didn't.

1) Where extortion will happen, as you said, is in heavily ethnic communities. These are people who come from parts of the world where extortion is still applicable, and are dealing with people who come from these parts of the world. There are more likely to be criminal affiliations inherently in the workforce of these businesses. There's more likely to be illegal immigration concerns, language barriers, or general misunderstandings about legal rights that prevent business owners from properly seeking legal aid. More importantly, there is also more of a threat imposed here because often times these business owners have family in the native country which can be targeted with impunity. If you own a Mexican restaurant as a Mexican individual living in a predominantly Mexican neighborhood, yes, an MS13 gang member showing up and saying "this is my territory and if you don't pay me your family in Guadalajara is going to get smoked" is a legitimate concern. 

But most importantly, I want to point out:

2) This man is in custody and pending RICO charges, and will almost certainly spend 10-20 years in prison for this, at least. The shop owner, also, is notably not "CK'd." In fact, this is an article talking about 43 members of MS13 getting arrested. FORTY. THREE. For doing stupid shit exactly like this. More proof that RPing in such a way without consequences for the criminal factions is unrealistic. The US fucks anyone who extorts in this country.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Ink

[Torlo]

Just now, El Ghetto Man said:

People trying to extort 24/7's and Liquor Stores should and can be reported for poor portrayal.

Unfortunately as far as I know, it for some reason is perfectly acceptable to extort a 24/7, it continues to happen on a daily basis at the 24/7 my character works at and the administration has done nothing and simply allowed this unrealistic extortion to continue. 

 

As to your other point, that news article is evidence that in the real world, severe and harsh consequences exist for doing these things that do not exist here. 

[Torlo]

I'd also like to add that as a legal rper on this server as it is currently, it feels like we're simply victims of illegal factions as far as our development within businesses is concerned. We have zero recourse if a thug walks in and demands we pay them, we're extorted, cked or simply cannot rp running our business anymore without dealing with thugs on a daily basis. In reality, one would hire armed guards, but it looks ridiculous so no one does it. Leaving us with no choice in our character development, as it's simply left to the whims of illegal factions as they face no realistic consequences for their actions.