State of San Andreas - State of driving - Public Barometer

[subway244]

Here's my take on this. Obviously desync can be a culprit for a lot of traffic collisions, and the ability to /vpark a vehicle damaged due to desync or mutually agreeing to void a crash is something too convenient to eliminate overnight. However, there are also a lot of crashes that are the result of GTA Online driving... and even though it might be a headache to some, if IC traffic laws were enforced more often it'd give a reason to have them in the IC penal code in the first place.

 

What I mean specifically is GTA Online drivers during peak server hours. Sometimes I drive through Davis and get side-swiped and run off the road by normal characters not even RPing a drag racer, because they only care about getting to their destination. I don't think traffic laws should be enforced to the degree of stopping at every light and using blinkers, but people would become more conscious of driving "realistically" if there was more IC law enforcement on bad driving. It's ultimately an IC issue.

 

Another idea is to have public speed trap cameras while in the city. It would give drag racers/criminals a reason to swap license plates to avoid getting ticketed. It should be an IC thing, criminal chars should be given the ability to break the law and find creative ways of doing so. Trying to fix this issue OOCly will only piss people off.

 

Edited March 4 by subway244
typo

[waterwings]

6 hours ago, Jeroen said:

As I tried to explain in that post.  If the officer decides to charge someone with misdemeanor Reckless Driving, they can't just use Officer's Discretion and just give someone a fine for MC 408. Reckless Driving and forego the arrest.  The officer is required to go through all it, and that is when this procedure starts. 

 

Yes, of course. What do you expect? It's a misdemeanor. A CRIME. Implementing cite and release would be a catastrophe cause we'd need an agency responsible to track down those people and making them show up to court, and tracking down people who don't show. It'd also severely raise case load, cause cases that'd be forgotten now have to be prosecuted.

You can apply "410. Negligent Operation of a Vehicle (I)" instead, which is BASICALLY the same thing but an infraction instead. Apart from the no jailtime, only the 3rd offense has less penalties.

Edited March 4 by waterwings

[Jeroen]

2 minutes ago, waterwings said:

Yes, of course. What do you expect? It's a misdemeanor. A CRIME. Implementing cite and release would be a catastrophe cause we'd need an agency responsible to track down those people and making them show up to court, and tracking down people who don't show. It'd also severely raise case load, cause cases that'd be forgotten now have to be prosecuted.

You can apply "410. Negligent Operation of a Vehicle (I)" instead, which is BASICALLY the same thing but an infraction instead. Apart from the no jailtime, only the 3rd offense has less penalties.

I've had an individual come forward in my Discord DMs that previously has done exactly what you and I described shouldn't be done, and argued to me that a cite & release on the curbside is an absolutely valid thing to do.

[waterwings]

11 minutes ago, Jeroen said:

I've had an individual come forward in my Discord DMs that previously has done exactly what you and I described shouldn't be done, and argued to me that a cite & release on the curbside is an absolutely valid thing to do.

Just because it's an absolutely valid thing IRL doesn't mean it's something that we want done on GTAW. This has been argued to LEO factions and the current instruction (should) be not to do it. If this is something that all (or any) LEO factions want, their leadership can always bring it up and discuss it with the courts, DA's office and LFM! It will require concessions. In its current state, I have seen officers pull someone over. Issue a ticket, tell them to appeal a misdemeanor in traffic court. That is not how it works IRL. You're cited and released, and then a prosecutor chases up the case and decides to file or dismiss, after which you are given a court date to appear. You can still go to jail ETC, this is at the discretion of the prosecutor when they file the case. And the judge who makes the ruling of course.

See the extra steps required here? You make a process a bit easier&faster (Meaning they're likely to do it more often)for LEOs but as a consequence, you make the process longer and more tedious to the person who still has to go to court, still maybe has to go to jail, the prosecutor who now has to chase down that person & send someone to issue a summons for the case, & what not. Because they will do it more often over giving people infractions, you will now have more cases to chase down where otherwise there'd be less cause cops don't wanna deal with a 30 minute arrest process but fully expect prosecutors, the courts, defense lawyer, defendant and who else to spend hours on that case.

EDIT: Not to mention that now when the case is finished, SADCR/whoever still has to do the entire arrest process if they go to jail anyways, minus plea. So now someone else has to do the work you were supposed to do! Just cause you didn't feel like it and let them go then and there.

Edited March 4 by waterwings

[Jeroen]

3 hours ago, Kenshi said:

The problem with making it an IC issue, is that for laws like this to be changed and more strict, it needs to go through LFM/IFM

I'll keep my personal opinions on LFM & IFM aside, as that's an entirely different topic on it's own. But unfortunately, they need to approve law changes like these. And more often than not, they'll ask to water things down before they'll approve them. Even this bill (which is a monumental step forward already, having it in the senate to begin with) had to be watered down slightly already.

 

The moment there are admins who OOCly change parts of a law due to OOC reasons, it's an OOC issue and any of the consequences should fall on them.

Can't have them change something and then have us deal with the resulting outfall.

 

12 minutes ago, waterwings said:

Just because it's an absolutely valid thing IRL doesn't mean it's something that we want done on GTAW. This has been argued to LEO factions and the current instruction (should) be not to do it. If this is something that all (or any) LEO factions want, their leadership can always bring it up and discuss it with the courts, DA's office and LFM! It will require concessions. In its current state, I have seen officers pull someone over. Issue a ticket, tell them to appeal a misdemeanor in traffic court. That is not how it works IRL. You're cited and released, and then a prosecutor chases up the case and decides to file or dismiss, after which you are given a court date to appear. You can still go to jail ETC, this is at the discretion of the prosecutor when they file the case. And the judge who makes the ruling of course.

See the extra steps required here? You make a process a bit easier&faster (Meaning they're likely to do it more often)for LEOs but as a consequence, you make the process longer and more tedious to the person who still has to go to court, still maybe has to go to jail, the prosecutor who now has to chase down that person & send someone to issue a summons for the case, & what not. Because they will do it more often over giving people infractions, you will now have more cases to chase down where otherwise there'd be less cause cops don't wanna deal with a 30 minute arrest process but fully expect prosecutors, the courts, defense lawyer, defendant and who else to spend hours on that case.

EDIT: Not to mention that now when the case is finished, SADCR/whoever still has to do the entire arrest process if they go to jail anyways, minus plea. So now someone else has to do the work you were supposed to do! Just cause you didn't feel like it and let them go then and there.

This is precisely what I've been arguing to this person via Discord DMs.

[waterwings]

6 minutes ago, Jeroen said:

SNIP

 

Simple explanation if anyone wonders:

 

Quote

1115.) Officer Discretion shall be applied in relation to all non-felony charges, in relation to an arrest. An officer may choose not to arrest someone in relation to a misdemeanor offense or an infraction, upon their own discretion. But may be liable for civil damages incurred if they fail to utilize proper discretion in the protection of any individual person. 

 

It says that you can choose not to arrest someone in relation to a misdemeanor offense (Or an infraction? But u don't arrest people for them anyways, so assume it implies you can choose not to ticket people for infractions instead i guess)

 

It does not list anywhere that you may lower penalties. It's weird- IRL, cops can lower penalties for infractions and apply lower tickets. On GTAW, even that would not be allowed by law.

[onlydemia]

whoever said CK chars who drive unrealistically and get into a crash was cooking, that's a good OOC solution. i think this should mostly be handled IC but if there is an OOC solution here, that's it

[Halcyon]

I’ve said it quite a few pages back but I’ll say it again, these types of people care only about a thing

 

assets. 
 

take away their vehicles permanently and watch how they will suddenly calm down and a lot of traffic related problems will be solved. It may not happen as much irl but this is the reality of our game and characters. Seize vehicles. Seize assets. It’s the perfect IC solution. 

[danistheman]

While a lot of players are to blame individually for their driving, we also need to blame the vehicles. The ridiculous acceleration and easy access to high end cars, stupidly high end modifications to engines and shit is largely to blame for this as well.

 

 

[Helm]

I think there's too much confusion about how intersections work.

 

It used to be every intersection with a light was treated as a four way stop. Now, it's kinda the same, but you don't have to stop, you can just... Roll through them "under 15 MPH."

 

However, in both of these situations, I don't think the majority of people are even OOCly aware that they do in fact need to respect the intersections, which leads to all those cars just flying through them, and not yielding to people who're already at the intersection. 

 

My concern with this is that this is an OOC issue. These rules are stated OOCly in the Penal Code, which most people don't read, because of the traffic light sync issues; which makes it difficult for LEOs to enforce ICly. I mean, we shouldn't have to go into /b on every traffic stop. I don't want to enforce OOC rules. I'm personally sick of it, especially some of the OOC arguments it's caused, and have thus stopped doing traffic stops for that infraction altogether. What makes this matter worse, is I'm pretty sure the traffic lights are mostly synced, and have been for years. I've literally seen newer players sit stopped at red lights for the entire cycle. So I think it's worth the risk to just start taking them ICly again.

 

Either way, fix the way the server handles intersections, and you'll fix the vast majority of people's problems with the driving.