The Future of Government

[Machiavelli]

10 minutes ago, Henning said:

This is the case with any faction on the server.

 

so we’re supposed to have a realistic LSPD, a realistic Criminal underworld but a political system composed of a bunch of party’s that don’t understand how US politics ACTUALLY works.

 

Right now we’ve got 2 parties who are just basing their decisions on how many votes it will bring in with no concern of how realistic their portrayal might be and a 3rd party who has absolutely 0 idea of how politics in the US works.

Please do enlighten me as to why you do not think we grasp the political process in the US, thus far i've only seen the same regurgitation, serving one axiom after the other, without any substantial and factual evidence to support said claim. 

EDIT: As a matter of fact we haven't even facilitated our in-game roleplay yet, and people are jumping to conclusions. I will wager that the apolitical eye is merely gazing upon the name of the party, and due to their lack of political aptitude they correlate it with an existence party in the MSM (hint hint, Brexit), as they have no remote idea how politics work. It is growing rather tiresome having to endure the lecturing from individuals that have never engaged in the political discourse in their entire life, and it is rather embarrassing for these said individuals that they conclude something based on the premise of a name. The dunning-Kruger effect comes to mind. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by Machiavelli

[Trupiano]

33 minutes ago, Machiavelli said:

Please do enlighten me as to why you do not think we grasp the political process in the US, thus far i've only seen the same regurgitation, serving one axiom after the other, without any substantial and factual evidence to support said claim. 

EDIT: As a matter of fact we haven't even facilitated our in-game roleplay yet, and people are jumping to conclusions. I will wager that the apolitical eye is merely gazing upon the name of the party, and due to their lack of political aptitude they correlate it with an existence party in the MSM (hint hint, Brexit), as they have no remote idea how politics work. It is growing rather tiresome having to endure the lecturing from individuals that have never engaged in the political discourse in their entire life, and it is rather embarrassing for these said individuals that they conclude something based on the premise of a name. The dunning-Kruger effect comes to mind. 

Because members of your faction have been explicitly banned from making political factions in the past and your entire faction thread is just a clone of 1960’s conservative values with a thick coat of big words added to make it sound smart and original.

 

I will wager that you think a few years of studying political theory makes you a big brain individual who knows more then the rest of us. Sadly you fell into the trap of focusing more on theory then execution, You have repeatedly argued with US citizens about US Politics and you have proven to many of us that you lack the understanding of how a 3rd party fits into the US political system. 
 

It is growing rather tiresome having to explain to a bunch of Europeans how my country's political system works. Europeans who have never voted in a US election and continue  to embarrass themselves by trying to flex their paper thin understanding of US politics.

[Guest]

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Edited January 2, 2020 by Guest

[Thirteen]

54 minutes ago, Henning said:

It is growing rather tiresome having to explain to a bunch of Europeans how my country's political system works. Europeans who have never voted in a US election and continue  to embarrass themselves by trying to flex their paper thin understanding of US politics.

I keep seeing this argument popping up once in a while, and it's getting old. I'm not a pilot either and I have no real life experience with operating planes nor helicopters either, but if I see one crashing into a tree, I'm pretty sure I can determine that there was an error made somewhere in that process of operation.

 

By that logic, roleplay is completely pointless because no one without first-hand experience of how something works in real life, can do the research to portray something realistically within the boundaries of the server.

 

Not saying that either of the parties popping up recently are portraying anything similar to real life equivalents in any shape or form.
Just that your logic is flawed.

[Trupiano]

19 minutes ago, Thirteen said:

I keep seeing this argument popping up once in a while, and it's getting old. I'm not a pilot either and I have no real life experience with operating planes nor helicopters either, but if I see one crashing into a tree, I'm pretty sure I can determine that there was an error made somewhere in that process of operation.

 

By that logic, roleplay is completely pointless because no one without first-hand experience of how something works in real life, can do the research to portray something realistically within the boundaries of the server.

 

Not saying that either of the parties popping up recently are portraying anything similar to real life equivalents in any shape or form.
Just that your logic is flawed.

If someone who was an actual pilot told you you were RPing a pilot wrong, would you listen to them or tell them they know absolutely nothing about planes and to shut up?

 

This argument keeps coming up because consistently on subjects such as US law enforcement and US government people from other countries keep promoting ideas and RP that makes no sense in Southern California, let alone the United States. Yet when we (NA RPer’s) point out the very glaring issues in their portrayals, we’re told to pipe down or that we are wrong. Which is funny considering what people are trying to portray is people and professionals we as US citizens deal with every single day. 

[Lerius]

2 hours ago, Henning said:

It is growing rather tiresome having to explain to a bunch of Europeans how my country's political system works. Europeans who have never voted in a US election and continue  to embarrass themselves by trying to flex their paper thin understanding of US politics.

But inevitably you are not explaining anything, but rather stating that europeans are inexperienced and bluntly said stupid on the topic of US politics purely because of the fact that we were not born on US soil. Nationality makes zero difference on someones capability to learn and research something.

 

Back to the topic. The political landscape of our virtual world is a coin with both of its sides being replicas of the other. Both parties portrayed similiar agendas which caused a group of people to create a separate party that would focus pushing the agenda that was missing from the existing two. In real world the same would happen if for example we would see one state's both rep. and dem. parties with left sided agendas. Existing voters who have right sided political views wouldn't vote for the left supporting parties, they would find an alternative from the minor ones or create their own to ensure their side of gets represented, and even push it further if majority was met. This is an entirely existing process in California for example. Anyone who legitimizes their party can officially enter elections with their own party on a state level.

 

We cannot duplicate our political landscape from California for example, because it is already flawed looking at how different the political views of each party and their real life counterparts are.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2019 by Lerius

[Thirteen]

40 minutes ago, Henning said:

If someone who was an actual pilot told you you were RPing a pilot wrong, would you listen to them or tell them they know absolutely nothing about planes and to shut up?

I would listen, sure. Because becoming a pilot requires years of training in that specific field. Being born in the US instead of literally any other country (all though we can make it a European one, since that seems to be the source of your anger), doesn't exactly make you an expert on all things American.

[Midwest]

25 minutes ago, Thirteen said:

I would listen, sure. Because becoming a pilot requires years of training in that specific field. Being born in the US instead of literally any other country (all though we can make it a European one, since that seems to be the source of your anger), doesn't exactly make you an expert on all things American.

Having people not from your country  (incorrectly) double check you on things they have no understanding of, is pretty stupid. This is something that shouldn't really be a issue but only so if a line is crossed (ie some guy from England trying to tell Americans how to be American because him going to a school in England makes him superior in terms of knowing America and American things). Luckily this is not a major issue. 

 

The issue that's spawning from this isn't Americans claiming they're expert on being American. It's people telling Americans they're incorrect about things that are American. And, Americans aren't entitled to tell people how to roleplay, but it's a respect thing which differs from person to person. It's a fact San Andreas is in America; doesn't matter if you rp it in replacement of California, as it's own state, or a independent territory, it's in America. Personally, I would not go on a Romanian server, half-assed roleplay Romania, shittily roleplay a Romanian, and basically fuck off the entirety of the country, then proceed to tell the Romanians they're wrong about how they're doing things and/or telling them that they're roleplaying their own people wrong (or alternatively, roleplaying something stupid and saying it happens when it doesn't).

Edited December 15, 2019 by Midwest

[Midsummer Night's Dream]

3 hours ago, Midwest said:

Having people not from your country  (incorrectly) double check you on things they have no understanding of, is pretty stupid. This is something that shouldn't really be a issue but only so if a line is crossed (ie some guy from England trying to tell Americans how to be American because him going to a school in England makes him superior in terms of knowing America and American things). Luckily this is not a major issue. 

 

The issue that's spawning from this isn't Americans claiming they're expert on being American. It's people telling Americans they're incorrect about things that are American. And, Americans aren't entitled to tell people how to roleplay, but it's a respect thing which differs from person to person. It's a fact San Andreas is in America; doesn't matter if you rp it in replacement of California, as it's own state, or a independent territory, it's in America. Personally, I would not go on a Romanian server, half-assed roleplay Romania, shittily roleplay a Romanian, and basically fuck off the entirety of the country, then proceed to tell the Romanians they're wrong about how they're doing things and/or telling them that they're roleplaying their own people wrong (or alternatively, roleplaying something stupid and saying it happens when it doesn't).

Knowledge, experience and understanding know no borders.
 

(Sure, secondhand experience is not always as reliable as firsthand, but having firsthand experience is not the be-all-and-all; sometimes, someone with secondhand experience will have understanding at the same depth as—sometimes, more—firsthand and be just as reliable as the person with firsthand)
 

(Also, I didn’t want to wade into this because it seems tangential. As Scavenger aptly alluded to, this line of argument over “semantics” and “portrayal” seems ill-timed) 

[Midwest]

5 hours ago, Midsummer Night's Dream said:

Knowledge, experience and understanding know no borders.
 

(Sure, secondhand experience is not always as reliable as firsthand, but having firsthand experience is not the be-all-and-all; sometimes, someone with secondhand experience will have understanding at the same depth as—sometimes, more—firsthand and be just as reliable as the person with firsthand)
 

(Also, I didn’t want to wade into this because it seems tangential. As Scavenger aptly alluded to, this line of argument over “semantics” and “portrayal” seems ill-timed) 

send me maple syrup and bagged milk

 

You can have knowledge and understanding of something, that creates expertise (not the same as experience, and diffidently not the case in this specific situation), which still needs experience to solidify. 

 

Also, experience does know borders. US politics is something unique to the US, as German politics are unique to Germans, Russian politics are unique to Russians, Chinese politics are unique to the Chinese. You can understand and have knowledge about something, but not have experience. And in this case, experience to back that knowledge and understanding 100% matters. 

You don't see Americans creating The Tory Party on GTA(UK) with little to no experience OR first hand knowledge of how life or politics in the UK actually is. Replace that with really anything on any server based anywhere. 

Not everyone knows everything, and being American doesn't entitle your opinion to being right, nor should anyone be shit on for not being American or understanding how America works and is (which is something you need first hand experience with). But that doesn't give people the right to say they know more than natives of a country based off no fact, evidence, or standing, other than the argument "just cause your American doesn't mean anything". We're roleplaying IN AMERICA! So yes, Americans are going to be upset if you half ass American things. It especially aggravates people when people who are allowed to lead SIMULATED political parties, based in America, don't actually resemble American parties. And when said people try to, for example, tell Americans that they don't know their country and you're smarter because you went to a higher education school. Or that "it's a game and we can do what we want", while throwing the term 'realism' around willy nilly. This is by no means everyone but certainly the examples that people get upset over. Same as anyone else would if the tables were turned and we were roleplaying in another country, fairly so. 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Midwest