Discussion on Robberies

[PoisonedPaint]

Just now, OLDSPICECOLOGNE said:

ur making this because od things that happened to you, not as a whole server 

Uhhh... no. I don't think so. Again, as I mentioned, a few people agree with me. I'm not part of a group/clique/whatever either. Check the thread and you will see more than just me who is bringing this up. Otherwise I would have not made the thread. 

As I said ad nauseum, I have no problem with illegal RP, but I feel there needs to be some kind of change in the way certain things are handled/things are now, because it seems like its all that happens lately, even in locations that should be less crime. 

In places where I come from in similar backgrounds of Heavy RP, faulty/risky decisions on the characters end often come with the risk of perma death if guilty or killed in action while taking this risk. Something feels like its missing here. 

[caballero]

1 hour ago, PoisonedPaint said:

I don't understand how I can be cautious if I'm standing behind a counter in a tattoo parlor taking customers? Like, literally, the past three times I have logged on, I am helping out Skull Clutch. Thats when we get robbed. 

But we are already talking about IC solutions. Overall, it just feels like theres too much going around and not enough ways to escape it if you don't want that RP. 

Just like you can't escape robbery in real life man... There's no way "to escape roleplay", you don't dictate what to be a part of or what not to be a part of in other players' stories, only thing you can do is circumvent it with IC measures. 

 

Really sad to read that you want to "escape that RP", makes me really realize that you got an issue with this side of roleplay in itself rather than the apparent issue at hand that you originally raised. 

 

As mentioned, all business robberies are performed under admin supervision. If an admin allowed it to occur, it's because they believe that the players behind the robbery had enough of a good reason to perform it. 

 

If you STILL believe that these robberies are not justified, you can go ahead with a report or bring it up with the admin who allowed them to perform. 

[Lexy]

12 minutes ago, PoisonedPaint said:

Uhhh... no. I don't think so. Again, as I mentioned, a few people agree with me. I'm not part of a group/clique/whatever either. Check the thread and you will see more than just me who is bringing this up. Otherwise I would have not made the thread. 

As I said ad nauseum, I have no problem with illegal RP, but I feel there needs to be some kind of change in the way certain things are handled/things are now, because it seems like its all that happens lately, even in locations that should be less crime. 

In places where I come from in similar backgrounds of Heavy RP, faulty/risky decisions on the characters end often come with the risk of perma death if guilty or killed in action while taking this risk. Something feels like its missing here. 

i rly dont think it's fair for illegal rpers to risk perma death over robbing a random pink haired woman with a phone, 2k in cash and 5 different kind of dildos on themselves. they are already risking going to jail for several days to a week ooc, losing their assets such as guns that don't just grow on trees. if you've been robbed as many times as you claim and so randomly, there must've been some rule breakings taking place... read the robbery rules, see if that's the case, and if it is - deal with it oocly. if not, IC issue i guess

one of the rules is that as a faction you can't wander far from your turf... let's say from davis to vinewood, to find random ppl to mug. you can get them reported. robbing businesses is more complicated and the risk is high for criminal rpers, it takes time and effort to get it done too, you have to schedule it with an admin and all that as well, and if the business is open it's not too difficult to get them caught - it can be dealt IC

Edited April 28, 2023 by Lexy

[PoisonedPaint]

19 minutes ago, hipsxn said:

You're wanting to make it that characters that are found to have used a gun in a crime eligible for a character kill, this doesn't just come down to robberies. Implementing such a ruling would be silly and would also result in the quick death of an entire roleplay scene. If you struggle to see why it would be an unfair consequence then I advise that you try out the same roleplay you wish to have such things implemented for. We already have rules set in place for robberies, if an illegal player shoots to get out of a PD situation / shoots to avoid an arrest; they're eligible for a CK. We don't need to add silly restrictions on top of what we have already. If a character reaches a certain amount of criminal points on their record, they're put in for life.

 

If an illegal player is charged with any form of crime related to a firearm, most likely possession, then they deal with those consequences in-chararacter. Illegal players aren't the main issue when it comes to robberies either, there's a handful of "victims" to said robberies that fail to roleplay adequete fear. If someone breaks the robbery rules we have on the server, report them; if they didn't break anything then handle it in-character, what car were they driving? Did it have a license plate? What were they wearing? Were they masked?

 

There's a handful of ways that legal characters can go about getting justice for what happened to their character, suggesting a ruling that "Character's found guilty to using a firearm in a crime should be eligible for a CK" will never be added, gun charges make up a large majority of felonies on most illegal character's criminal records and I would also argue that it's one of, if not the most popular charge on the server at the moment, do you see where making them eligible to a character-kill because of such a charge would be silly? As I said before, play within the same roleplay scene you aim to critize before making such crazy suggestions.

Bolded 1: I agree with this rule. I just feel that it should be taken a step further. Just being a criminal-based character generally should carry more risk of CK than the average joe. And on that note, I'd even say legal/police players should have similar risk,  because they are putting their lives on the line to protect others. 

Bolded 2: I definitely feel that victims should also be eligible for CK's if they fail to RP that fear. But right now, it happens so much that for some characters, I can see why they might say "you know what? this has happened to me for the 100th time, I'm not taking this shit" and the character decides to fight back. I definitely feel that both characters should be eligible for a CK at that point, based on the outcome of the winner/loser of the scuffle. 

 

Bolded 3: Thats mainly the point here, though. It should be done much less, and considered heavily much more due to said risks. Robbery or any crime for that matter shouldn't be something you just walk out the door one day and say "lets do an armed robbery." 

But, either way. The suggestions are made in order to attempt finding better solutions. 

Criminals, and even LEO's, should be regarded as more 'disposable' characters, rather than long-term ones. They are risky character types. If I ever made either one of these character types, I would most certainly not expect to keep them long term. If I screw up, it would be on my character's own head. 

Edited April 28, 2023 by PoisonedPaint

[Zytum]

8 hours ago, Peak. said:

 

Jail times are getting increasingly better I must admit, some people are standing trial and facing up to 5 months in prison / jail which is a real punishment. The other side of that is what if that person is killed during the incident, jail time is often avoided and the character will often wake up like nothing has happened. 

 

Jail times are not getting better.

 

LEOs are going out of their way to OOCly punish illegal RPers by abusing the fact that the court system is saturated and a mess.

 

There has been multiple instances of LEOs throwing absurd charges with no evidence and putting people in prison for 9999 days waiting trial because they know it will take up to a month before the court system even realizes what's going on - effectively ajailing people for no reason. This has been brought up to LFM repeatedly, and there is a clear pattern of this.

 

People already have to spend days, or even weeks in prison over their crimes. That's enough of a risk without needing to enforce CK's over the pettiest things.

 

Anyone suggesting for illegal characters to be CK'd if they hold any gun, or are caught in the act of committing a petty mugging, is actively working towards killing the server.

Petty crime is needed, and there are enough OOC barriers and hoops that illegal RPers have to go through as is.

 

At the end of the day every player will have a different view on the amount of robberies that happen. I know many people that have never been robbed, or it's a rare occurrence then I also know some that get robbed three times a day. It would be a good idea to stop and consider if maybe being a millionaire driving expensive cars and going to places where your character doesn't belong to might lead to you getting robbed.

 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Zytum
Toxicity = bad

[Timzii]

I'm not reading the whole thread but these are my two cents;

 

There's little to no risk factor for the people comitting the said robberies. They can mask up, get in all black clothing, glove up and there's a 95% chance that if they never are caught in the act, they won't be caught because its literally impossible to find them. There's no CCTV's, which would allow further investigations by LEO's, if they are, they are dependant on the admin whose supervising the robbery (if they are) or on the honesty of the people committing the robbery.. which in most cases will try to have the play-to-win mentality and give little to no useful information from my experience. And if there's a small chance that they are caught in the said act, it usually ends with them dying in a shootout so they don't lose their precious 10k pf gun they got off of a friend. How exciting.

 

So considering majority of the people understand that crime is a big issue in the city, IC laws which carry sentences for robberies, guns and discharging should have their sentences increased significantly so that people who committ those crimes should feel some actual pressure and fear before doing them. This would make them re-think twice before the act, or at least play it out smarter.

 

The problem is also that there's really no areas where civilians can roleplay freely. Everywhere is a 'gang territory', be it Hawick, Mirorr Park or even Rockford Hills. There's not a single place where you can be outside and not feel like you're not in a place that's riddled by crime. This essentially brings the small amount of civvies to roleplay inside, which in return makes the city feel dead as anyone you do meet is either a cop or an illegal roleplayer..

 

Whilst adding more ooc restrictions is gonna make one side outraged to say the least, something needs to be done to make it more balanced and enjoyable for the people who want to roleplay ordinary people with an actual 'life'.

 

 

[hipsxn]

10 minutes ago, PoisonedPaint said:

Criminals, and even LEO's, should be regarded as more 'disposable' characters, rather than long-term ones.

This is all I needed to hear.

[PoisonedPaint]

10 minutes ago, caballero said:

Just like you can't escape robbery in real life man... There's no way "to escape roleplay", you don't dictate what to be a part of or what not to be a part of in other players' stories, only thing you can do is circumvent it with IC measures. 

 

Really sad to read that you want to "escape that RP", makes me really realize that you got an issue with this side of roleplay in itself rather than the apparent issue at hand that you originally raised. 

 

As mentioned, all business robberies are performed under admin supervision. If an admin allowed it to occur, it's because they believe that the players behind the robbery had enough of a good reason to perform it. 

 

If you STILL believe that these robberies are not justified, you can go ahead with a report or bring it up with the admin who allowed them to perform. 

Bolded 1: In IRL, I certainly don't get robbed every time I walk out of the house. That is what has happened when I play anymore, and I'm just tired of it. Perhaps I am just growing a bit tired of the server in general? But I recall enjoying it a lot more before when it didn't seem like being a victim of a robbery wasn't a daily RP occurrence. 

Bolded 2:  Being forced into robbery RP near every time I play? I wonder why I have issues. If it happened maybe *once* a week? I'd be more okay with it. But its becoming too frequent to justify, which is why I am getting to be the way I am/made the thread. There's other people who have answered in the thread already who have the same mindset, but I'm almost 99% certain there's even more, but they don't speak up because its pretty much the status quo. 

 

Bolded 3: Its honestly not my call to make, as it isn't my owned business. But depending if I even stick around, if it ends up happening again, I might just end up doing that. The day of the latest robbery I literally came on just to help out, because I hadn't been on in a while. 


 

[caballero]

3 minutes ago, PoisonedPaint said:

Criminals, and even LEO's, should be regarded as more 'disposable' characters, rather than long-term ones. They are risky character types. If I ever made either one of these character types, I would most certainly not expect to keep them long term. If I screw up, it would be on my character's own head. 

I should remind you of the investment that both criminal and LEO characters have, very different from the investment of a normal civilian business owner character, due to this, they cannot be "disposable".

 

All business owners have to do (again, I've ran several businesses so don't argue me on this) is apply for a business, wait several days and start opening and generating income; it is the fastest and easiest way a player can take on this server, my smallest business generated about 600k monthly.

 

On the other hand, criminals have a very long way to go before perfecting their character, from making their way into a faction (which can take weeks), getting ways of making money in illegal ways (which is barely anything, illegal rp at a low scale doesn't pay at all), THEN finally getting their hands on firearms, which can be quite costly, not only script-wise, but it could've costed that player several days of progression and development.

 

Then, after a month or so, they finally get their hands on a firearm, to then what, get caught for an armed robbery and sent to jail for life? 

Or, even simpler, get caught with it due to a normal everyday stop, frisked and sent to jail, costing them that script-money and time invested, which is way bigger than any loss you could have due to being robbed.

 

With gun charges being the majority of the charges on the server, you would effectively hinder 60% of the playerbase's roleplay. 

So what are you suggesting with "it should happen less?" that criminals smarten up? Not everyone is roleplaying a hardened, 200iq criminal. Most of the characters are gang-involved, which are not well known for planning out their robberies to an extreme level of detail, so yes, them robbing you might be stupid, but then again, it's justifiable and it happens in real life more than you think, and if they don't get caught for doing it, they'll see it as an easy way to get money and keep doing it until they're eventually stopped in their tracks, and land them with several charges of armed robbery (if the proof is there). 

 

If anything, illegal characters should NOT be as disposable as you say or "carry more risk".

 

 

If you believe that "I've been robbed several times, I won't stand for it!" and try to fight back and get CK'd, you can appeal it. If you try to fight back without a weapon, get ready to have a reality check.

 

If the same criminals are robbing you every single time, be prepared and put a bullet in their head the next time they come around, and request a CK on them with the proof of them robbing you several times. 

[Moonsong]

The number of people who complain about the current restrictions and limits on robberies is staggering to me. There is so SO much more to criminal rp than 24/7 robberies.  Robberies should only be for the most desperate of characters who have nothing, have drug habits etc or well scouted crimes of opportunity. Driving up to every random you see in the hopes of a good payout, makes zero fuckin sense. If you're someone who's desperate for robberies to be unrestricted freeforalls, or if you're someone who primarily roleplays robberies you SERIOUSLY need to take a long, hard look at your roleplay.

 

"Hire security" they'll say, but the exact same people want to "disarm" security guards, they don't want you having metal detectors, they probably don't even want you having CCTV. Something definitely needs to be done to curb robberies because players simply aren't going to self moderate themselves or be reasonable. Give them an inch, they'll take a mile and find a meta while they're at it.