[JSA] DO NOT change the felony expungement system.

[JohnGili]

1 hour ago, OliHaydes said:

The previous expungement system was illegal and essentially full pardons to crimes, something which simply just does not happen.

 

The reasoning for the argument is it is illegal and unrealistic. Please note that expungement does occur in the real world and there are firms within California that charge $ 1000 to $2000 for an application. There are limitations to expungement, yes but for the most, it does happen.
 

I am not going to post the entire discussion we had but in short, it does occur even if we were to go evaluate some jurisdictions like the Rehabilitations Act 1974 from my jurisdictions, for some professions they do ask disclosure but it doesn't affect the overall decision when it comes to the hiring process. The issue is that it will limit players that may want to switch occupations and many businesses do ask for criminal background checks before hiring. Players unable to expunge charges will be affected unduly due to this haste decision just because the leadership felt it is unrealistic or it doesn't occur in the 'real world' when it does but with some limitations pertaining to disclosure.

For the most part, expungements do occur in the real world but maybe if wanted realism then you can change some of the laws but preserve the old system. Furthermore, the new system is arbitrary and all of a sudden as noted here. 

I have already stated the points as the review board is only for limited circumstances and I feel my points are not been noted even brushed off as well. 

[Martyn]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_tape

Edited April 13, 2023 by Martyn

[Price]

5 hours ago, JohnGili said:

issue it won't be like expungements as you need the following to apply for your case to be considered :
 

• The conviction must have been in Los Santos County;
• The petitioner must be a living person;
• There must be a claim of actual innocence;
• Credible evidence of innocence must exist;
• The claim must not be frivolous.

  
  This is not an expungement but more or less a review board that reviews the integrity of the conviction  and removes them accordingly instead the removals of the charges based on good behavior or other factors for expungement. Issues are the last two conditions, credible evidence of innocent and actual innocence. 
  Expungement was not meant for that and it was more or less whether the offender has changed his lifestyle for the better. It should be noted even though you admitted in the JSA discord that this will be more limited than what expungements would bring about as a whole. Checks and balances was already in place as it is ruled by a judge. 
  
  Also it should be noted that expungement system, the old system you have to show proof of employment, proof of community service and other factors to be considered there was no need to change the rules or program as it was already working.
   

  You are not bringing rp to the court but more responsibility to the DA when it is barely functioning no offense. The execution is very fast and there was no placeholder for the system, hence it is affecting everyone's rp in general. 

 

I literally just said the thread is outdated and will be updated. Don't know why you're arguing against this. I publically came out and announced that you CAN do it.

 

It's literally less work for everyone involved. The old system garunteed us to win if we decided we don't want to give you an expungement. This new system will allow MORE people to get expungement and make it easier. The old system benefited lawyers more by needing to compile all that evidence and file it in court., this one benefits players more as a player can just do it on his own and doesn't 

 

Of course if the community believes that they want the old system where the DA's office can just say no and there's absolutely no process of appeal, that's completely fine.

 

In the old expungement system, we never expunged murder charges, rarely expunged felonies beyond non-repeating evasion. At least during my time as DAO leadership.

 

2 hours ago, JohnGili said:

The reasoning for the argument is it is illegal and unrealistic. Please note that expungement does occur in the real world and there are firms within California that charge $ 1000 to $2000 for an application. There are limitations to expungement, yes but for the most, it does happen.
 

I am not going to post the entire discussion we had but in short, it does occur even if we were to go evaluate some jurisdictions like the Rehabilitations Act 1974 from my jurisdictions, for some professions they do ask disclosure but it doesn't affect the overall decision when it comes to the hiring process. The issue is that it will limit players that may want to switch occupations and many businesses do ask for criminal background checks before hiring. Players unable to expunge charges will be affected unduly due to this haste decision just because the leadership felt it is unrealistic or it doesn't occur in the 'real world' when it does but with some limitations pertaining to disclosure.

For the most part, expungements do occur in the real world but maybe if wanted realism then you can change some of the laws but preserve the old system. Furthermore, the new system is arbitrary and all of a sudden as noted here. 

I have already stated the points as the review board is only for limited circumstances and I feel my points are not been noted even brushed off as well. 

 

Again, what we had were full-on pardons.

 

We can't change laws, that's for SAGOV. We can change systems however. 

[Manny]

We will be expunging charges but not in this manner. It is extremely unrealistic to grant someone a full pardon for felony offenses only because they filed a petition. Expungement is the complete removal or sealing of a person's record after a conditional sentence has been served without violating any terms and conditions. For example, you can be put on probation for 30 days and upon completion of that period, you can request an expungement. No pardons will be granted by any court faction.

 

Habeas hearings are trials where one's imprisonment is questioned. It's a POST-conviction remedy which means you have to be convicted first. Habeas hearings will remain a thing, but they won't just be petitions that someone files and demands record removal. In a habeas hearing the burden to prove actual innocence is on the convicted party.