Would you like it if there was a juvenile and sometimes 18+ year old prisoners talk to the minors?

[eTaylor]

1 hour ago, Snoof said:

The server has a lot of teenage characters running around at this point and as a rule nearly every one of them is an active criminal. Sure it'll be less active at certain times of the day than others and there'll be good days and bad days, but that's true for literally every other concept on the server too. Just because something won't be a massive party all the time that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. If it did, we should've stopped separating prisoners by gender a long time ago. All I ever hear about women's jail is how dead it is 90% of the time. 

 

The argument for Juvie existing on the server is that it doesn't make sense for underage kids to be thrown into lockup with all the experienced career-criminals and lifers, and that them being there actively makes the incarceration experience less immersive for both parties. I think a lot more people would be willing to RP out their time spent in lockup if it actually felt 'right'.

 

One of the reasons I proposed for it to have major differences from adult prison is in part to make it less reliant on guards and a dense population by pushing everybody closer together. I also don't think there should be such a thing as crimes that would send them 'beyond' juvie if this was to exist. Our regular prison doesn't have different security levels because we can all agree that that would stretch the population too thin, so why should the underage version?

I’ve never said I was against something like a JAC, jail or any type of prison. I’ve always been for having all of them. That said, none of them have the population to support it. I’m just warning people so they don’t get disappointed. Jail itself is only popping if you’re one of those very special people that get to play during special hours in jail, or happen to catch an event. People talk about a juvenile jail and paint this rose colored picture of it being a populated detention center with some epic roleplay. It’s not.
 

The police on the streets drag a net across the map sweeping people from all walks into the system. That means that people entering the system aren’t curated at all, thankfully factions offer some shielding. Jail roleplay is a niche, but landing in jail isn’t. Nor is minor roleplay, but proper portrayal of said roleplay is. All juvenile will be is a smaller section offering an even smaller niche their own space. Great, so is the idea of being less reliant on guards. But that’s something the current jail struggles with as is. And is a problem that hasn’t been solved for over 12 years. Pushing people together includes trying to push an incredibly diverse group into one camp. Fact will always be that a substantial part of inmates, including minors, don’t want to interact with the jail. Another part is just shit at roleplaying and the small group of dedicated people are just that. A small group. You’re painting an unrealistic utopian picture. 

[Gorman380]

2 hours ago, Snoof said:

we should've stopped separating prisoners by gender a long time ago. All I ever hear about women's jail is how dead it is 90% of the time. 

I'd rather the women's jail be dead than have to put up with female characters annoying my seasoned gangbanger char that's doing life in prison and realistically hasn't seen a woman in years.

 

On topic though, a juvenile wing would be cool when prison comes out, idk how good it'd be though.

 

 

[Snoof]

7 minutes ago, eTaylor said:

I’ve never said I was against something like a JAC, jail or any type of prison. I’ve always been for having all of them. That said, none of them have the population to support it. I’m just warning people so they don’t get disappointed. Jail itself is only popping if you’re one of those very special people that get to play during special hours in jail, or happen to catch an event. People talk about a juvenile jail and paint this rose colored picture of it being a populated detention center with some epic roleplay. It’s not.
 

The police on the streets drag a net across the map sweeping people from all walks into the system. That means that people entering the system aren’t curated at all, thankfully factions offer some shielding. Jail roleplay is a niche, but landing in jail isn’t. Nor is minor roleplay, but proper portrayal of said roleplay is. All juvenile will be is a smaller section offering an even smaller niche their own space. Great, so is the idea of being less reliant on guards. But that’s something the current jail struggles with as is. And is a problem that hasn’t been solved for over 12 years. Pushing people together includes trying to push an incredibly diverse group into one camp. Fact will always be that a substantial part of inmates, including minors, don’t want to interact with the jail. Another part is just shit at roleplaying and the small group of dedicated people are just that. A small group. You’re painting an unrealistic utopian picture. 

Maybe I would be if I'd at any point said it was all going to be brilliant. I'm under no illusion that creating a juvenile detention center is going to magically make all the community's problems disappear. All the things you just mentioned already happen in regular prison. All I'm suggesting is that creating this space would provide those who are actually willing to use these spaces properly with a better framework in which to do so.

 

Like I said in my very first post, there's a world where I'm just as much in favor of getting rid of all separation in the prison system and just lumping everybody together in the name of letting people pick and choose who they interact with from a bigger pool of players, as long as it's made clear that that is the way things are ICly. I would take that over the half measure we've got going right now for sure. But as long as the server goes on priding itself on its realism, I think the realistic path makes more sense and provides a more authentic experience for everyone.

 

10 minutes ago, Gorman380 said:

I'd rather the women's jail be dead than have to put up with female characters annoying my seasoned gangbanger char that's doing life in prison and realistically hasn't seen a woman in years.

 

On topic though, a juvenile wing would be cool when prison comes out, idk how good it'd be though.

 

 

And a lot of the women would probably rather not be in there with you either; It's every bit as weird for them. An adult woman being in there with you is no less realistic than a 12 year old boy being in there with you though. That's sort of my point here.

[Gorman380]

15 minutes ago, Snoof said:

And a lot of the women would probably rather not be in there with you either; It's every bit as weird for them. An adult woman being in there with you is no less realistic than a 12 year old boy being in there with you though. That's sort of my point here.

Kids sometimes get charged as adults. Women never get charged as men.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Gorman380

[Snoof]

Just now, Gorman380 said:

The difference is that kids sometimes get charged as adults. Women never get charged as men.

That... doesn't really mean anything? Kids might get charged as adults but they sure as hell don't get thrown into the same prison as the adults until they themselves are adults. Being charged as an adult just means they're able to receive a harsher sentence than what would otherwise be possible for a minor and that the protections offered to underage offenders can be waived.

[Gorman380]

31 minutes ago, Snoof said:

That... doesn't really mean anything? Kids might get charged as adults but they sure as hell don't get thrown into the same prison as the adults until they themselves are adults. Being charged as an adult just means they're able to receive a harsher sentence than what would otherwise be possible for a minor and that the protections offered to underage offenders can be waived.

most juvenile rpers that are worth their salt dont even RP in jail and just log off til they're released anyway, RPing they got sent to juvi. It's not as big an issue as having females in the same prison is.

[Snoof]

3 minutes ago, Gorman380 said:

most juvenile rpers that are worth their salt dont even RP in jail and just log off til they're released anyway, RPing they got sent to juvi. It's not as big an issue as having females in the same prison is.

That sounds like a really good reason to give them a separate space to RP being in Juvie to me. I really don't understand how it's not as big of an issue.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Snoof

[AnthonyCourtney]

think people are underestimating what juvie could do for criminal rp. it could easily be the catalyst for more criminals knowing eachother for (ic) years which would hopefully lead to more detailed beef and other roleplay

 

it's worth implementing anyway for the same reason female prison was even though it's dead 99% of the time - the good M rpers just AFK it because it's retarded and the bad ones run around and ruin the experience of everyone else, so even if it fails it's good for prison RP

Edited March 22, 2023 by AnthonyCourtney

[TeaEnjoyer51]

3 hours ago, Gorman380 said:

most juvenile rpers that are worth their salt dont even RP in jail and just log off til they're released anyway, RPing they got sent to juvi. It's not as big an issue as having females in the same prison is.

Because most juvenile RPers dont wanna roleplay with the 30+ year old seasoned gangbangers who are in there for big ass charges.

I don't see why people are saying "Oh but activity won't be there!" you don't need 30+ people in 1 pod for the jail to be active. 4 or 5 people is MORE than enough for there to be amazing RP, and no I'm not saying only because there's 4 juvenile RPers there should be a juvenile. I'm saying that there doesn't need to be super big activity for there to be roleplay. Just like jail is right now, you might get to see 10 - 15+ people IG at times but mostly it's just like 3-4 people sat at the table roleplaying.  


 

[eTaylor]

37 minutes ago, TeaEnjoyer51 said:

Because most juvenile RPers dont wanna roleplay with the 30+ year old seasoned gangbangers who are in there for big ass charges.

I don't see why people are saying "Oh but activity won't be there!" you don't need 30+ people in 1 pod for the jail to be active. 4 or 5 people is MORE than enough for there to be amazing RP, and no I'm not saying only because there's 4 juvenile RPers there should be a juvenile. I'm saying that there doesn't need to be super big activity for there to be roleplay. Just like jail is right now, you might get to see 10 - 15+ people IG at times but mostly it's just like 3-4 people sat at the table roleplaying.  


 

The majority of intakes aren’t juveniles. And most of the juveniles that do get picked up get charged with misdemeanor crimes, if they’re charged at all. Often with sentences as low as an hour, a few if they’re worse. An empty wing is about as inviting as adseg. Anecdotal but I’ve seen more female inmates than I have minors during my own hours violating and denying basic human rights at TTCF. Plenty of potential though, if it’s used right. Never stopped the segregation of female inmates so why should it stop the segregation of minors? Sink or swim, let all just burn.