Forbid OOC requirements in property sales

[Mahitto]

1 minute ago, Now You See Me said:

I don't see a problem with this tbh because I know that if I have a character that matches an area I have a lot better of a chance to get a house there than if it was let to just buyout since I don't want to become a trucker or a mapper to grind all the money.

 

So what happens if I, for example, want to flip that property and just come up with a random background story and reasoning? It's not that hard. It takes me minutes to do and if that was my goal, I'd obviously go for it. Being a regular player, the seller can't really check anything. Imagine someone selling a property in, say, Sandy Shores, and enforcing some pointless "application". I'll tell them my character's an upstanding citizen who spends all of their free time working to bring Sandy Shores to life, owns and runs a small servicing business as well as is part of a little group that constantly role-plays around the area and brings it to life. And much more stuff. None of it is true. Now you won't get your house, because I'm better at writing (or, in my case, making stuff up). Seeing how many people get out of punishments and situations by sweet-talking their way, and how they're usually the ones who flip stuff and break rules, this would be (and is) quite common. And on top of that, as a buyer, you might find yourself being "denied" a property despite having a perfectly reasonable reasoning, assets and everything, simply because you've been in a fight with the seller 2 years ago. Or everyone's offers might simply get ignored as the seller found someone to sell the property for for half the price and $50 venmoed to their account over Multimart. There's so many issues with allowing this to happen.

 

My personal opinion should be that all property sales, regardless of what they are, should be completely out-of-character, to make sure that people are actually portraying realistic characters in said areas. But the process should be something more major and official. Not randoms making decision on their own, opening up a lot of opportunities to abuse and break rules, while mixing in-character with out-of-character on a major scale.

[Mahitto]

5 minutes ago, Timzii said:

good joke

 

I have RQPM-reported various people and the issues always stopped, so I don't see the problem? However, I do see a problem when the rulemakers are biased, subjective individuals.

[Melly]

Reports of any nature in this community currently take forever to be handled. It seems that unless you pester admins to handle something, or are friends with someone on the team, you can expect to wait a good bit. To this, everyone says report the staff member then, but that's yet another report that also takes time to be dealt with.

 

In my opinion, if someone wants to choose who they sell their property to based on a description of their character, then so be it. Sure, certain players can fabricate stories and try to obtain properties by lying, but others truly submit valid reasons for their character to have such property. Without this, every property for sale will be be sold on a first come, first serve basis, which only brings the chances of random, undeveloped characters owning unique properties higher.

 

Not supporting.

[Mahitto]

1 minute ago, Melly said:

Reports of any nature in this community currently take forever to be handled. It seems that unless you pester admins to handle something, or are friends with someone on the team, you can expect to wait a good bit. To this, everyone says report the staff member then, but that's yet another report that also takes time to be dealt with.

 

In my opinion, if someone wants to choose who they sell their property to based on a description of their character, then so be it. Sure, certain players can fabricate stories and try to obtain properties by lying, but others truly submit valid reasons for their character to have such property. Without this, every property for sale will be be sold on a first come, first serve basis, which only brings the chances of random, undeveloped characters owning unique properties higher.

 

Not supporting.

 

So what happens when you have a genuine character and reasoning to buy a property, but it gets sold to someone who sweettalks their way out of reports for a living, or simply know how to word something better despite having ill intent? The seller, being a regular player, can't verify anything. You'll miss out on a property for purely OOC reasons. What happens if a property that perfectly fits your character is posted and you're the first one to see it, but it's sold one week later to someone who venmo'ed $25 to the seller? Or you're just skipped over because the seller has a grudge against you? There are many possible situations. It should be on a first-come first-served basis. If it's not, and if there's no transparency or better process, stuff like this can happen, it's free game, and it's absolutely, 100% impossible to stop or even prove any of it.

 

As I responded to a different comment - this is is not about me. I was lucky enough to own unique houses on both of my active characters. I've seen and heard of many people suffering because of this loophole, though and besides, it is a clear breach of the rules. I don't really gain or lose anything if this is implemented or not. I've simply seen a huge opportunity to do shady stuff. My personal opinion should be that all property sales, regardless of what they are, should be completely out-of-character, to make sure that people are actually portraying realistic characters in said areas. But the process should be something more major and official. Not randoms making decision on their own, opening up a lot of opportunities to abuse and break rules, while mixing in-character with out-of-character on a major scale.

 

By that logic, should people be allowed to sell guns, for example, on a purely OOC basis? As this happens - I can ask you for a a little application on why you want a gun, your character's backstory and plans and such, so that I can make sure you're not buying it to further damage the server's already-affected gun market and climate, to commit poor robberies, or to deathmatch? Would that be okay? I don't think so.

[Lucas Welch]

+1. Ooc information is ooc information and it shouldn’t give another player a advantage, because they have a better backstory etc.

[Topinambour]

Hmmh I'm a bit confused, as to why this suggestion is such a big problem to so many :x 

 

Requesting IC info would make sense. Like, since properties in Paleto are so rare, making IC'ly sure you're not selling to an asshole who wants a 4th summer house is completely logical. But requesting a weird OOC resumee feels a bit odd :x 

[Mahitto]

13 minutes ago, Topinambour said:

Hmmh I'm a bit confused, as to why this suggestion is such a big problem to so many :x 

 

Requesting IC info would make sense. Like, since properties in Paleto are so rare, making IC'ly sure you're not selling to an asshole who wants a 4th summer house is completely logical. But requesting a weird OOC resumee feels a bit odd :x 

 

I'm talking about the OOC ones. It's borderline metagaming. People can get denied on an IC basis because the seller doesn't believe they're ICly fit to own their property). It's the textbook definition of mixing IC and OOC.

 

 

 

 

These were found within a 2 minute search. It's quite literally adding OOC conditions and personal.

 

I do understand the reasoning, but it should be the staff team's responsibility to deal with property flippers and hoarders. Allowing people to do stuff like this isn't just a textbook breach of the metagaming rule, as the IC market is suddenly dictated by a lack of logic (imagine someone offering you $1 mil for a property and choosing to go with a $250k offer - that doesn't happen) but also opens up a lot of possibilities for abuse.

 

This wouldn't fly in any other situations. As I was saying above, imagine people requiring applications when selling guns in order to make sure the buyer doesn't plan on abusing or deathmatching with it, and it becoming pretty much an OOC market and process. We're on an RP server, things like this should stay in character. If someone's breaking any rules, flipping properties, is inactive, is hoarding properties, has assets that don't match their character and so on, there are ways to deal with all that.

[Unity]

I am failing to see what exactly is the issue with making sure the properties being sold is going to someone who actively RP's in the area the property is in? It's literally saving the admins (who are volunteers) valuable time and energy of having to deal with these RPQM reports. It's a bloody amazing thing if someone is making sure OOCly that the property is going to someone who actively RP's in the area.

 

What you are suggesting will fuck over the already shitty county situation of people who do not RP in county, owning property in county.

 

So unless you can actually give a VALID reason as to why this needs changing. Big fat no from me.

 

tl;dr -1

 

edit: "Wah it's metagaming" isn't gonna cut it too. As metagaming is to give yourself an advantage. If you want to get anal about metagaming. All OOC interaction should be cut, as it's Metagaming in some way or another.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Unity

[imi]

Not really a fan of this suggestion, the 'mixing of OOC and IC' is slight and leads to more good than harm. I remember seeing properties that have two buyout prices, one for roleplayers in the area and a more expensive one for everyone else. I think these are great

[Phased]

On 2/25/2022 at 2:35 PM, Cypher99 said:

While we’re at it, we should make all mappers become IC companies because frankly mapping OOC is not realistic either.

"Yeah, I have a house that when I walk inside I end up in the abyss, can you make my walls inside please?"