( Business Idea - Liquor Stores / Brewery Script - 5/11/21 )

[TonyPetronero]

Short description:
Exlusive use of brewery script to approved brewery and distilleries.
 

Detailed description: 
It's come to the brewery and distillery communities attention that people brewing and distilling alcohol in unsupervised /unapproved areas is hindering the roleplay of our community. These "Home-Brewers" make home brew and sell to the local liquor stores with zero roleplay involved and we'd like to bring it to the table that this is completely unrealistic. These people are brewing home-brew that would probably be absolutely wretched and selling to liquor stores as high-quality beer and alcohol. We'd like to propose that the brewing script be only available in approved brewery buildings.
 

How would your suggestion improve the server?: 
We think this would help improve roleplay in the brewing & distilling community and also would improve the roleplay involved with liquor stores. Right now liquor stores have no reason to have accounts with breweries & distilleries because the market is so diluted by home-brewers that don't roleplay the proper equipment or processes etc. 
 

Additional information:

We would love to hear thoughts on this and some constructive feed back regarding this issue!

Edited May 11, 2021 by TonyPetronero

[Sixty]

In before all the script grinders come in and complain that you're taking away their "roleplay" by locking it to approved businesses 😅

 

On serious note though,

 

Totally agree. Any decently established business would not be caught dead buying alcohol from someone who makes a "home brew" without some sort of verification of making quality and safe products. If these products are not distilled correctly, there are elements in these distillation processes that can kill you or at the very least make your time on this Earth very unpleasant lol. Unfortunately we lack the elements in-game that would normally keep this from happening such as food + beverage inspectors & health inspectors so this has gone relatively untouched for way too long. It shouldn't stop us from striving towards a better foundation though. It makes no sense for Bob, Larry and Joe to brew inside their RV or inside their little warehouse and then have legal, established businesses blindly buy their product based on the lowest bidder. This just doesn't happen. You'd be risking your patrons and subjecting them to possible badly brewed/distilled products with harmful chemicals, additives or worse.

 

On an OOC note, this area of RP has been sorely lacking and there are a few of us who are really passionate about making this more beneficial not only for brewers but also for private customers and business owners. In the interests of compromise, if there is to be an illegal brewer job, it should be locked behind an illegal supplier application or subject to IFM approval. The same as legal business owners who are locked behind applying for it through Property Management. That way this can be controlled and monitored for RP quality purposes, the same as every other business or supplier role.

 

EDIT: I am not against home brewers. Home brewers exist IRL, but they still require state licensing in most cases through a beer and wine license. The idea here is to only be able to obtain access to the script through approval and justification of building a business/brand, rather than leaving it open season for anyone to do in the wrong way. Quality over quantity.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Sixty

[TonyPetronero]

@FatherHayhas a really good input on how the system should operate, looking forward to his ideas listed below. 
 

Also @mj2002had a bit of good input as well!

[FatherHay]

So here's my take on it. Basically, the efficiency of home-brewing needs to go down, maybe make it so if you use the current kit, you only brew 5X of each thing, rather than the current 10X? Keep the times on each stage the same. Next, you should probably implement some kind of certified-brewery system. Something admins flag you for, maybe even add it to businesses like the Y menu bars and things have, where you can brew MUCH LARGER quantities, at more more efficient raw material:product ratios. For example, under the current system, it looks like this if you wanna Brew 100 beers:

 

80 Water, 50 Wheat, 60 Sugar, 40 Yeast.

 

But with the new system, it could be something like:

 

60 Water, 37 Wheat, 45 Sugar, 30 Yeast.

 

And instead of the basic input being:

 

8 water, 5 wheat, 6 sugar, 4 yeast. P/batch.

 

The more industrial system would have something like a minimum req' of 100 Beers each batch, so you'd look at the number mentioned in the efficiency section:

 

60 Water, 37 Wheat, 45 Sugar, 30 Yeast.

 

It immediately becomes more cost-efficient, and you're brewing larger quantities, sure you'd have to up the time required a bit between stages, as to not totally break the economy and to allow for brewery folks to RP, but you can see how this already begins to put brewers in a vastly more advantageous position.

 

You could even utilize elements of the drug-system, to further seperate home-brewers from industrial brewers. Create a quality system, so if I brew at home it'll be between 60%-90% quality alcohol, reflected IC'ly through poor filtration of sediment, light-striking or oxidization. And make normal breweries produce at like 80-100% quality alcohol.

 

Why're these changes important? Why are they needed? Well, below - you can see the maths behind why I think Brewing's in a dog-shit spot right now, and why it's been a perpetual race to the bottom, with one-man brewers being the meta (please note, I'm not a mathematician so this might be slightly-off):

 

 

Liquor = $54.9 p/unit = $549 p/batch.

Beer = $33.3 p/unit = $333 p/batch.

 

1min + 3min + 2min = 6min p/batch = 36 secs p/beer.

If babysitting, avg time reduces as all elements can be running at once.

 

Assuming everything is always running, we can be a bit more generous with our time and assume that we can complete a batch around every 4~ minutes, once you account for menu time and things, following your first batch.

 

This means we’ll see around 15 batches every hour, or 150 units, p/hr p/employee working. This means, assuming you pay a basic wage of $4,000 p/hour, you need to sell this product for $12,235 or $815.67 p/batch or $81.567 p/unit, if you’re selling liquor. Or a total of $8,995, $599.67 p/batch, $59.967 p/unit, in the case of beer. Keeping in mind, this is just to break even, whilst paying your staff a fair wage. Which arguably, isn’t fair, given the amount of work involved in brewing, comparatively to other jobs.

 

Prices would need to increase further, in order for the owner/business to be profitable. So, assuming a 10% markup, we’re looking at around $90 p/unit of liquor and around $66 p/unit of beer (this is a rough estimation). Raising batch costs to around $900 p/batch of liquor, and around $660 p/batch of beer. Or: $13,500 p/hr of production on liquor, or $9,900 p/hr of production of beer. This is only to generate a profit margin of 10% for the company, with the boss only making $135 p/hr p/employee on liquor, or $99 p/hr p/employee if it’s beer. This number raising by $4,000, if he/she is also brewing.

 

Therefore, every hour of a Brewery’s work should be valued at (when aiming to generate profit at a 10%):

 

$13,500 p/hr for liquor.

$9,900 p/hr for beer.
 

 

If you want to hire staff, and have GOOD roleplay at your place of work, that also allows them to generate a decent income for themselves, you immediately start to price yourself out. Keeping in mind, the maths above is for a 10% profit for the company, which is super low and unreasonable, as most would be looking for 30-40% minimum, realistically.

 

If you want to create a good RP scene around the industry, there needs to be some serious alterations to the system and additions. Even a tiered-system, that breaks it up even more would be sick. Have there be like home brews -> micro brews -> mid-tier breweries -> macro brew. With macro producing VAST quantities, at a more consistent but non-perfect rate, at super efficient levels. Mid-tiers and micro brews having better chances at these epic 100% quality beers or whatever, but slightly less efficient, then home-brews just being that, something you'd make at home in a small amount for you and the boys.

 

 

 

Also, side-note, why is the boil the longest stage in the current system? You can do a full brew in a day, it's the fermentation that eats into your time-.. So the current timing should be, really - 1 min mash, 2 min boil, 3 min fermentation, no?

 

Side note no2. Maybe only allow people in the higher tiers, or people with special licensing to sell alcohol to the mechanical liquor stores..

Edited May 12, 2021 by FatherHay

[TonyPetronero]

56 minutes ago, FatherHay said:

So here's my take on it. Basically, the efficiency of home-brewing needs to go down, maybe make it so if you use the current kit, you only brew 5X of each thing, rather than the current 10X? Keep the times on each stage the same. Next, you should probably implement some kind of certified-brewery system. Something admins flag you for, maybe even add it to businesses like the Y menu bars and things have, where you can brew MUCH LARGER quantities, at more more efficient raw material:product ratios. For example, under the current system, it looks like this if you wanna Brew 100 beers:

 

80 Water, 50 Wheat, 60 Sugar, 40 Yeast.

 

But with the new system, it could be something like:

 

60 Water, 37 Wheat, 45 Sugar, 30 Yeast.

 

And instead of the basic input being:

 

8 water, 5 wheat, 6 sugar, 4 yeast. P/batch.

 

The more industrial system would have something like a minimum req' of 100 Beers each batch, so you'd look at the number mentioned in the efficiency section:

 

60 Water, 37 Wheat, 45 Sugar, 30 Yeast.

 

It immediately becomes more cost-efficient, and you're brewing larger quantities, sure you'd have to up the time required a bit between stages, as to not totally break the economy and to allow for brewery folks to RP, but you can see how this already begins to put brewers in a vastly more advantageous position.

 

You could even utilize elements of the drug-system, to further seperate home-brewers from industrial brewers. Create a quality system, so if I brew at home it'll be between 60%-90% quality alcohol, reflected IC'ly through poor filtration of sediment, light-striking or oxidization. And make normal breweries produce at like 80-100% quality alcohol.

 

Why're these changes important? Why are they needed? Well, below - you can see the maths behind why I think Brewing's in a dog-shit spot right now, and why it's been a perpetual race to the bottom, with one-man brewers being the meta (please note, I'm not a mathematician so this might be slightly-off):

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Liquor = $54.9 p/unit = $549 p/batch.

Beer = $33.3 p/unit = $333 p/batch.

 

1min + 3min + 2min = 6min p/batch = 36 secs p/beer.

If babysitting, avg time reduces as all elements can be running at once.

 

Assuming everything is always running, we can be a bit more generous with our time and assume that we can complete a batch around every 4~ minutes, once you account for menu time and things, following your first batch.

 

This means we’ll see around 15 batches every hour, or 150 units, p/hr p/employee working. This means, assuming you pay a basic wage of $4,000 p/hour, you need to sell this product for $12,235 or $815.67 p/batch or $81.567 p/unit, if you’re selling liquor. Or a total of $8,995, $599.67 p/batch, $59.967 p/unit, in the case of beer. Keeping in mind, this is just to break even, whilst paying your staff a fair wage. Which arguably, isn’t fair, given the amount of work involved in brewing, comparatively to other jobs.

 

Prices would need to increase further, in order for the owner/business to be profitable. So, assuming a 10% markup, we’re looking at around $90 p/unit of liquor and around $66 p/unit of beer (this is a rough estimation). Raising batch costs to around $900 p/batch of liquor, and around $660 p/batch of beer. Or: $13,500 p/hr of production on liquor, or $9,900 p/hr of production of beer. This is only to generate a profit margin of 10% for the company, with the boss only making $135 p/hr p/employee on liquor, or $99 p/hr p/employee if it’s beer. This number raising by $4,000, if he/she is also brewing.

 

Therefore, every hour of a Brewery’s work should be valued at (when aiming to generate profit at a 10%):

 

$13,500 p/hr for liquor.

$9,900 p/hr for beer.
 

 

If you want to hire staff, and have GOOD roleplay at your place of work, that also allows them to generate a decent income for themselves, you immediately start to price yourself out. Keeping in mind, the maths above is for a 10% profit for the company, which is super low and unreasonable, as most would be looking for 30-40% minimum, realistically.

 

If you want to create a good RP scene around the industry, there needs to be some serious alterations to the system and additions. Even a tiered-system, that breaks it up even more would be sick. Have there be like home brews -> micro brews -> mid-tier breweries -> macro brew. With macro producing VAST quantities, at a more consistent but non-perfect rate, at super efficient levels. Mid-tiers and micro brews having better chances at these epic 100% quality beers or whatever, but slightly less efficient, then home-brews just being that, something you'd make at home in a small amount for you and the boys.

 

 

 

Also, side-note, why is the boil the longest stage in the current system? You can do a full brew in a day, it's the fermentation that eats into your time-.. So the current timing should be, really - 1 min mash, 2 min boil, 3 min fermentation, no?

 

Side note no2. Maybe only allow people in the higher tiers, or people with special licensing to sell alcohol to the mechanical liquor stores..

100% agree to both your side notes. @Kasper McQueenis a brewer IRL as well and I’ll see if she has input for the thread!

[bricksbricksbricks]

at a glance no thanks. don't like ooc restrictions... 

 

fix the problem with the underlying system instead.. what exactly is the problem if people sell to liquor stores? The way it is now with liquor stores and components. Isn't your market venues and/or consumers directly? You need a bar script to label the products which some random homebrewer doesn't have, or need to, to do their script selling.

 

adding more qualified brewing equipment might be a start and then lower efficiency of blue barrel setups, then someone homebrewing properly can still do so.

 

perhaps this more qualified equipment isn't cheap and not super easy to obtain, but it should all be IC. 

[TonyPetronero]

3 hours ago, bricksbricksbricks said:

at a glance no thanks. don't like ooc restrictions... 

 

fix the problem with the underlying system instead.. what exactly is the problem if people sell to liquor stores? The way it is now with liquor stores and components. Isn't your market venues and/or consumers directly? You need a bar script to label the products which some random homebrewer doesn't have, or need to, to do their script selling.

 

adding more qualified brewing equipment might be a start and then lower efficiency of blue barrel setups, then someone homebrewing properly can still do so.

 

perhaps this more qualified equipment isn't cheap and not super easy to obtain, but it should all be IC. 

The problem is people are brewing beer and distilling liquor in disgusting conditions as if it would come out as some high quality product and then selling it to the liquor stores. 

[DigitalSausage]

Yes! +1

 

On top of this I'd love to see a change such as:

 

Without a brewing license or brewing in a certified brewery plays create moonshine, homebrew beer and homebrew wine ect

 

With the license or brewing in a certified brewery players create: distilled vodka, whiskey ect, craft beers ect BUT also the license should also give the potential to rename what players brew so players can have their own tailored brands.

 

Example: let's say I am a brewing license holder and I have brewed a batch of beers. I want to create brand awareness so people know it came from me so I'd rename the beers to DigitalSausage's brewery - 4% beer.

Edited May 17, 2021 by DigitalSausage
Spelling

[Rhexy]

On 5/13/2021 at 7:54 PM, bricksbricksbricks said:

at a glance no thanks. don't like ooc restrictions... 

 

fix the problem with the underlying system instead.. what exactly is the problem if people sell to liquor stores? The way it is now with liquor stores and components. Isn't your market venues and/or consumers directly? You need a bar script to label the products which some random homebrewer doesn't have, or need to, to do their script selling.

 

adding more qualified brewing equipment might be a start and then lower efficiency of blue barrel setups, then someone homebrewing properly can still do so.

 

perhaps this more qualified equipment isn't cheap and not super easy to obtain, but it should all be IC. 

 

[TonyPetronero]

On 5/17/2021 at 2:14 AM, DigitalSausage said:

Yes! +1

 

On top of this I'd love to see a change such as:

 

Without a brewing license or brewing in a certified brewery plays create moonshine, homebrew beer and homebrew wine ect

 

With the license or brewing in a certified brewery players create: distilled vodka, whiskey ect, craft beers ect BUT also the license should also give the potential to rename what players brew so players can have their own tailored brands.

 

Example: let's say I am a brewing license holder and I have brewed a batch of beers. I want to create brand awareness so people know it came from me so I'd rename the beers to DigitalSausage's brewery - 4% beer.

It would be nice to have this integrated, instead of having to use the bar script to rename drinks.