Amend the cop killing rule

[OCSteppa]

Not in any case should there ever be 15 LEOS against 1 criminal (Going off what Peak said), even if thats been thing a few times IRL, most likely 3-4 backups would come which is only at most 8 people against 1 crim. 15 LEOS against 1 person is honestly crazy and shows the amount of killer robots they have in the LSPD and LSSD. There is no need to get more than 3 squads for 1 person, I would understand if it was a full car of gangster banger shooter guys vs 15 LEOS, but 1? No. If you make it this far you are very obviously reading into the fact I am just babbling about anything at the moment so here’s more. The LSPD is full of robocops, no matter if they get reported or not, the report gets thrown away because LEOs are in favor of the admin team. And the ratio of admins who RP as LEOs compared to criminal RPers is just way off and it really shows how much they team with each other. Bad LEO or good LEO, they just some LEOs for real.

Edited January 21 by OCSteppa

[Conwell]

1 minute ago, OCSteppa said:

Not in any case should there ever be 15 LEOS against 1 criminal (Going off what Peak said), even if thats been thing a few times IRL, most likely 3-4 backups would come which is only at most 8 people against 1 LEO. 15 LEOS against 1 person is honestly crazy and shows the amount of killer robots they have in the LSPD and LSSD. There is no need to get more than 3 squads for 1 person, I would understand if it was a full car of gangster banger shooter guys vs 15 LEOS, but 1? No. If you make it this far you are very obviously reading into the fact I am just babbling about anything at the moment so here’s more. The LSPD is full of robocops, no matter if they get reported or not, the report gets thrown away because LEOs are in favor of the admin team. And the ratio of admins who RP as LEOs compared to criminal RPers is just way off and it really shows how much they team with each other. Bad LEO or good LEO, they just some LEOs for real.

Nobody’s talking about any of what you said here. Please don’t derail the thread. 

[OCSteppa]

Just now, Conwell said:

Nobody’s talking about any of what you said here. Please don’t derail the thread. 

Sorry conwell i dont know what im doing im eating a sandwich.

[Valkyria]

idk, @Jax CK'd 4 cops who fucked around and found out, and I think that's an example more should follow. People shouldn't limit test and act hard because they can.

I see a 4 deep blacked out Torrence? I leave.

r.e. suggestion on the rule amendment - it doesn't really do anything? Like, I get where you're coming from but if they break the rule anyways you gotta go through the process of reporting them and asking for a CK regardless, so I don't know what exactly it would do other than have some more specific writing than most rules.

[Barbary]

8 minutes ago, Conwell said:

I specified how it can be done in the last section of my suggestion. Please read it, I don’t think the way I suggested it exposes you to harm. 

 

You seem to be running with this idea that I didn't read your OP. I did. I've told you my problem that your proposed amendment is too open for abuse because a lot of it is entirely up to interpretation. Especially the 'corruption' bit, because I'm not even sure how that applies. A cop shaking someone down for cash? Being racist? Or just being a dick? Should you be allowed to kill someone for those last two reasons? Wouldn't that basically tumble into the poor escalation clause in general? Plus, as you mentioned in your OP, the 'ignoring threat to bodily harm' thing is open to people BSing too.

 

Maybe instead of changing the rule, we instead need to change the way LEO players are overseen OOCly. I agree that the amount of stone cold hardasses who take no shit is both annoying and boring.

[Peak.]

3 minutes ago, Conwell said:

How do I know when it is allowed for me to even shoot them? If we go by the rules, I would breach them if I killed a cop in any of those situations. That’s the current rules. Can’t kill them if they’re not trying to arrest me for a serious offence or are actively threatening my life. Calling me a CI or pulling me over in a dark alleyway of Rancho does not constitute a kill as per the rules. My only option would be making a forum report and that takes away from Role Play. If they wanna play hard ICly then they should suffer the consequences ICly. I shouldn’t have to run to the forums for everything, especially considering these aren’t exactly clear breaches of the rules but rather questionable IC actions. You tell me if you disagree tho, I’m not an admin but I feel like these 8 years of playing SAMP and GTA 5 Roleplay have taught me some things. I’m open to hearing your POV as a member of the staff though!

Why are you wanting to kill a cop in the first place..? Why would your character want to be the victim of a manhunt as a result of you shooting a cop - be charged with capital murder or result in your death? To kill a law enforcement should be used as a last resort because the consequences from it are life-changing. On the flip side Use of Force by LEO factions is investigated and should be investigated more for IC punishments to occur as a result of misused force. Always happy for someone to explain why they've done something as long as it's plausible and realistic it shouldn't be a problem. The problem we had before is units pulling people over for a traffic infraction only to be domed to the head and killed instantly, this simply wasn't fun or realistic. 

[Conwell]

1 minute ago, Valkyria said:

idk, @Jax CK'd 4 cops who fucked around and found out, and I think that's an example more should follow. People shouldn't limit test and act hard because they can.

I see a 4 deep blacked out Torrence? I leave.

r.e. suggestion on the rule amendment - it doesn't really do anything? Like, I get where you're coming from but if they break the rule anyways you gotta go through the process of reporting them and asking for a CK regardless, so I don't know what exactly it would do other than have some more specific writing than most rules.

It clarifies it for illegal roleplayers to know for sure if they’re abiding by the rules or not and legal roleplayers that they can be killed and that there are no rules protecting them from it. 

[Conwell]

3 minutes ago, Peak. said:

Why are you wanting to kill a cop in the first place..? Why would your character want to be the victim of a manhunt as a result of you shooting a cop - be charged with capital murder or result in your death? To kill a law enforcement should be used as a last resort because the consequences from it are life-changing. On the flip side Use of Force by LEO factions is investigated and should be investigated more for IC punishments to occur as a result of misused force. Always happy for someone to explain why they've done something as long as it's plausible and realistic it shouldn't be a problem. The problem we had before is units pulling people over for a traffic infraction only to be domed to the head and killed instantly, this simply wasn't fun or realistic. 

Yeah those accusations he made (for no reason but to get me into trouble because I clowned him ICly) can get my character CKd or shunned. It’s a very serious thing to say, especially in front of the other bangers. 
My IC higherups could’ve asked me to kill him to prove I’m not a CI and get me into OOC trouble for it. 

Edited January 21 by Conwell

[Thurston Howl]

Remove the rule altogether they already have enough advantages over us (the silent majority) and if they cross the wrong person they run the risk of getting popped

[ZaE]

32 minutes ago, chickenrappa said:

I'm inclined to agree, a regular rule amendment should be in place. There should not be some sort of special steps in place which protect the LEO rpers who are entrusted with such authority and the ability to completely ruin somebodies roleplay experience on the server, and they should be subject to an even HIGHER standard of roleplay standards than your average player, especially given that all of their equipment is given to them for free, their vehicles are free and faster than most vehicles on the server, and they have the advantage of VOIP.

 

Let's be real frank and honest here, if you have been apart of the club and been in LEO roleplay. Many people under the guise of roleplay will go and stop any car that's 4 deep, or has masked people in it, that's obviously metagame and they don't care because there's no real server based accountability in the LEO community; besides their internal leadership which are also LEO roleplayers. A player should not have to go file a RPQM report (which takes years to get a reply on) on a cop who runs into the depths of a known gang area extremely outnumbered, or as previously stated, harassing a specific group or making comments which border on corruption or not valuing their character's life.

 

As conwell stated in the first page, this isn't to bring us back to the time of getting a skorpion burst to the face for running a red light, but simply to mitigate the edge of what is acceptable, and sometimes becomes edgy roleplay when it comes to acting like a "hardman" or "super cop". This means when you're surrounded by 20 gang members in a dark alleyway, and you choose not to call backup because you're being crooked by conducting illegal search and seizure, or geniuses kicking over gang member murals for fallen comrades. We're not talking about what is technically required of that character, like responding to a call for service, or doing what they're meant to do by responding to a shooting and trying to bring peace to it. We're talking about implementing a checks and balances system so that members of the LEO community may also be reported in game, and subject to character kill or other administrative punishment for extreme cases of lack of fear rp or a pattern of behaviors or harassment to a specific character or group which is obvious and one or more actions were conducted that would cause lethal conflict escalation if they were an illegal rper. These things can include making fun of deceased members, kicking murals over for deceased members, using extreme force with impact weapons without proper reason, robbery, or trying to take on a crowd of 20 by yourself, etc.

10/10