Disallow K9 sniffing the player during a stop

[pazzz]

2 minutes ago, test83318 said:

I do not believe that limiting K9 usage through script methods should be a good idea, but by establishing regulations like the ones set for Air Units. However, I don't think its enforcement should be done in a OOC way, but (as everyone takes issues to their own parcel) ICly through the courts, even if that implied removing some OOC case law from the continuity and inserting our own, which included these restrictions. 

 

Another option would be to set a clear standard under "Rodriguez v. United States", regarding the lack of reasonable grounds for a K9 sniff that extends a traffic stop. 

 

But from what has been posted while I was writting this, the search on the vehicle should also include its occupants, but with a higher persentage to fail (including false postives, but also false negatives).  

 

We already have limitations in place, we don't need more.

[cryybabyycryy]

2 minutes ago, pazzz said:

 

We already have limitations in place, we don't need more.

Which are??

From what I have seen and known (yes I did k9 in both PD and SD in the past), you need little to work on. As I have had a K9 unit pull me over for speeding and do a whole search cause a passenger had a non felony charge.. The realism of even being pulled over by K9 is pretty bunk.

Edited September 18, 2023 by cryybabyycryy

[Gamble]

If a window is open, I don't see why K9 cannot sniff occupants inside the vehicle... As far as I am aware, there still are regulations that a PD K9 handler needs a a justified reason (eg reasonable suspicion) to sniff someone, they're not done randomly as @Reece? mentioned.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Gamble

[Reece?]

3 minutes ago, liq said:

The "percentage to fail" is negligible because it's set at 95% success rate so it's basically infirm. 

And still, using the canine script to sniff through every player inside the car when the script lets you do an open air sniff in the area + on the vehicle is borderline playing to win to me. That or the success rate needs to be severely lowered to something more acceptable.

 

 

Wrong, it's lower than that actually.

 

It's not borderline play to win, it's realistic. A canine can sniff a vehicle and all of its occupants inside of the vehicle, like I said prior to that we don't just 'sniff' the vehicle and all of its occupants. We expect certain criteria to have been reached first.

 

There are rules and regulations already in place prior to a sniff. I would like to see where it has been abused.

[CowboyYoda22]

Police are allowed to legally use sniffers outside of a car to raise the alarm for probable cause, for a search of a vehicle and this doesn't break the 4th amendment, IRL the dog wouldn't be able to tell the difference between someone having the drugs or the car itself. 

Having someone step out after the dog failed to smell anything around the car and then bringing the sniffer over to the person to smell them without probable cause (the dog failed to provide evidence on the initial legal pass around), would most likely resort in a breach of a person's 4th amendment rights. Which can be an IC thing, but this happens almost all the time IG and isn't very realistic. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by CowboyYoda22

[Freed0m]

As much as I agree that the Canine script is pretty strong (as somebody who is in PD Canine), this would just make the script redundant on traffic stops because nobody ever puts their guns inside of the car whilst actively using them, they are permanently equipped on the person. The script should realistically alert to guns on passengers and stored in the vehicle, because that's how the dog's nose works.

 

IMO it'd be kinda fun to increase the fail percentage to something that makes it seem actually possible to fail. (90-10, 80-20 or smth) (i also have no idea what the actual fail chance is rn)

[Jax]

I see that neutral scenes should be a 50% 50% outcome.

If you are in a less fair environment a 70% 30%, even 90% 10%

How k9 script is used, is basically complete PG and gives 0% chance for the other party to have a fair chance of winning.
Only if the K9 handler is alright he will simply not use the actual dog script and just use it to scare the person, but that's rare.

[Reece?]

1 minute ago, cryybabyycryy said:

Which are??

From what I have seen and known (yes I did k9 in both PD and SD in the past), you need little to work on.

 

These rules have changed, we have internal policies so we don't just sniff a vehicle 'because we can'. This was changed a long time ago.

[pazzz]

Just now, cryybabyycryy said:

Which are??

From what I have seen and known (yes I did k9 in both PD and SD in the past).

 

We can't just sniff because we feel like it, we need a generally good reason to do so. Random sniffing was disallowed months ago.

[cryybabyycryy]

1 minute ago, pazzz said:

 

We can't just sniff because we feel like it, we need a generally good reason to do so. Random sniffing was disallowed months ago.

That is the issue, its simple to "find" reason.

Edited September 18, 2023 by cryybabyycryy