Disallow K9 sniffing the player during a stop

[liq]

K9 is extremely powerful as is, with the dog having no script impediment no matter if you try to package drugs among food items or other stuff alike, having a perfect success rate no matter what. The common practice with people who use canine dogs in role-play is to do "open air sniffs" around the car at a random traffic stop. These players then run the script on the car itself and on the player itself.

 

This is a proposal to disallow running the script on the player itself. It makes no sense to sniff a player in an area that they haven't been in, and run the dog script on them whilst they are sat in a vehicle. It's hugely OP as it is and practiced on just about any routine traffic stop as an excuse to escalate things poorly. Sniffing the car is OK but not the player when doing whatever these "open air sniffs" are.

To clarify - the intent here isn't to go against any canine elements in legal factions, it is to find balance in the script or make it so that it doesn't need to sniff each player and can instead have /sniffcar do that with the applicable success rates based on containers used. I've learned that doing the open area sniff only affects stash item'd or dropped items so it makes sense why it's currently used, this'd require a script change.

Edited September 18, 2023 by liq

[Mór-Ríoghain]

Yes. It really feels like powergaming when the K9 sniffs the vehicle, comes up short, and then they decide to individually sniff every single passenger.

[cryybabyycryy]

I agree that something needs to change, I'm not sure if full removal is needed but for sure stronger regulations, and perhaps a written report of each sniff and why needs to be put on file for reference. I really would like to see it limited to felony stops and a higher probable cause.

[Engelbert]

As much as I am for this. It is not PG actually. Law doesn't recognize walking a K9 around a car during a regular stop as a search. So Police can walk their dog around your car during traffic stop.

But the player, well...they need a probable cause or suspicion to order someone out of a vehicle.

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Engelbert

[liq]

1 minute ago, Engelbert said:

As much as I am for this. It is not PG actually. Law doesn't recognize walking a K9 around a car during a regular stop as a search. So Police can walk their dog around your car during traffic stop.

Nobody cares about this. This is about the usage of the canine script to sniff a player when sniffing the car proves to be unfruitful. They should stick to sniffing the car during an open air sniff.

[Reece?]

7 minutes ago, liq said:

K9 is extremely powerful as is, with the dog having no script impediment no matter if you try to package drugs among food items or other stuff alike, having a perfect success rate no matter what. The common practice with people who use canine dogs in role-play is to do "open air sniffs" around the car at a random traffic stop. These players then run the script on the car itself and on the player itself.

 

This is a proposal to disallow running the script on the player itself. It makes no sense to sniff a player in an area that they haven't been in, and run the dog script on them whilst they are sat in a vehicle. It's hugely OP as it is and practiced on just about any routine traffic stop as an excuse to escalate things poorly. Sniffing the car is OK but not the player when doing whatever these "open air sniffs" are.

 

 

There are rules and regulations in place for when a K9 is utilized, you should know this being in an LEO faction yourself. The success rate is also not perfect, there is a percentage for it to fail. No one randomly sniffs a vehicle without correct reasoning. If there are any that are done without a legitimate reasoning I would love for it to be brought to me so I can deal with it internally. 

 

As for realism, a canine can sniff through a vehicle, it's not an airtight submarine that holds all scents inside of it. The script limitation means that when we sniff a vehicle it doesn't sniff the person inside, realistically if a person inside a vehicle has a weapon the canine would alert.

[pazzz]

The dog would sniff the car and THOSE inside of it, if /sniffcar actually sniffed the passengers then we wouldn't have an issue. You're still apart of the car, so whatever's on you would still be indicated by the dog anyway.

[liq]

1 minute ago, Reece? said:

 

 

There are rules and regulations in place for when a K9 is utilized, you should know this being in an LEO faction yourself. The success rate is also not perfect, there is a percentage for it to fail. No one randomly sniffs a vehicle without correct reasoning. If there are any that are done without a legitimate reasoning I would love for it to be brought to me so I can deal with it internally. 

 

As for realism, a canine can sniff through a vehicle, it's not an airtight submarine that holds all scents inside of it. The script limitation means that when we sniff a vehicle it doesn't sniff the person inside, realistically if a person inside a vehicle has a weapon the canine would alert.

The "percentage to fail" is negligible because it's set at 95% success rate so it's basically infirm. 

And still, using the canine script to sniff through every player inside the car when the script lets you do an open air sniff in the area + on the vehicle is borderline playing to win to me. That or the success rate needs to be severely lowered to something more acceptable.

[test83318]

I do not believe that limiting K9 usage through script methods should be a good idea, but by establishing regulations like the ones set for Air Units. However, I don't think its enforcement should be done in a OOC way, but (as everyone takes issues to their own parcel) ICly through the courts, even if that implied removing some OOC case law from the continuity and inserting our own, which included these restrictions. 

 

Another option would be to set a clear standard under "Rodriguez v. United States", regarding the lack of reasonable grounds for a K9 sniff that extends a traffic stop. 

 

But from what has been posted while I was writting this, the search on the vehicle should also include its occupants, but with a higher persentage to fail (including false postives, but also false negatives).  

[DennyDengo]

2 minutes ago, liq said:

The "percentage to fail" is negligible because it's set at 95% success rate so it's basically infirm. 

And still, using the canine script to sniff through every player inside the car when the script lets you do an open air sniff in the area + on the vehicle is borderline playing to win to me. That or the success rate needs to be severely lowered to something more acceptable.

Change the script for the car sniff to incorporate everyone in the car so you don't have to sniff everyone individually.