Crime Restrictions in "The Hills"

[CupcakeCow]

16 minutes ago, Decker said:

realistically there would be, yes, but there just isn't.

 

you could say the same thing about alot of things in the game that doesn't exactly mirror real life. Realistically, Koreatown would be flled with Latino gangs, homeless people and drugs, but in game, it's not.

 

realistically vinewood would be one of the most grimey, disgusting places in LS (With the hills not being included ofc), filled with gangs, violence, hookers, r*pists and other filth, but it's not, it has a few gangs that sling drugs and beat eachother up but that's about it.

 

realistically mirror park wouldn't be a high class neighborhood and would also be a gritty, disgusting place where most people wouldn't want to be for longer than a few minutes, but it's just not.

And this becomes another issue of cherrypicking when people decide that want some realism in the game when it suits and some when it doesn't. Not I definitely don't think some of those things you mention should be in the game for very -specific- reasons that make me even uncomfortable to think about discussing.

The thread is up to suggest ways to fix things to improve the experience for both sides. I agree the restricted crime zone might sound really harsh- but we also know there is a huge huge huge bigger grey area and things are simply not just black or white to look at things. It is clearly not just an IC issue, and it's clearly some sort of OOC issue as many MANY people have suggested nearly 30 pages into this thread of horrible experiences they've had. Now people have said- they don't mind crimes being a thing on the server, but the way a lot of these crimes are being done. And it's clearly not being combated as the way things stand currently which is why a change was suggested, and this is OOC. Someone giving you one liners icly is very much an ooc thing- because they are OOC'ly not putting in effort. 

Same with again, as it's been mentioned many times, forcing someone to rp guarding an area on their own is -boring- nobody comes on here to sit and post /me's on their own, if they do? Good for them, but most people come to roleplay. And you can't expect- nobody should expect people to rp guarding the place on their own or patrolling on their own, it would get so stale and have even more people quitting or taking a break from rp from the burnout which again is an OOC issue. The playerbase / jobs are too small in numbers to cover it fully with everything going on in the server at any time, time zones are an issue as well- again all OOC. And I am really shocked how some people cannot just simply look at this. 

If people like roleplaying with you yourself and you alone, props to them, but most people roleplay to interact with other characters. And sure- if they spot someone breaking in or being dodgy, that's some minutes of roleplay for them. But that's also not a guarantee, it's just cruel to stick people into a roleplayless limbo and goes against being a heavy roleplay server and I wouldn't want to force any SD, PD, Park rangers or security teams to be forced into this position just to be stuck for hours with next to no roleplay. Essentially wasting their free time online. 

[Decker]

1 minute ago, CupcakeCow said:

And this becomes another issue of cherrypicking when people decide that want some realism in the game when it suits and some when it doesn't. Not I definitely don't think some of those things you mention should be in the game for very -specific- reasons that make me even uncomfortable to think about discussing.

I also don't think that some (Well, one, i think u know which one) of those things should be in game for highly obvious reasons. I was simply pointing out that just because a neighborhood is a certain way in reality if it's not like that IC, it's not like that IC. We can't perfectly replicate everything on this game, as much as I'd like Koreatown to be a haven for Latino gangs, for Vinewood to be a complete shithole full of whores, junkies and thugs and for Mirror Park to be the ghetto it is IRL, it's just simply not like that IC, just like how as much as you'd like Vinewood Hills to be safer and to have less robberies going on, that's simply what's going on IC at this moment in time.

 

4 minutes ago, CupcakeCow said:

The thread is up to suggest ways to fix things to improve the experience for both sides. I agree the restricted crime zone might sound really harsh- but we also know there is a huge huge huge bigger grey area and things are simply not just black or white to look at things. It is clearly not just an IC issue, and it's clearly some sort of OOC issue as many MANY people have suggested nearly 30 pages into this thread of horrible experiences they've had. Now people have said- they don't mind crimes being a thing on the server, but the way a lot of these crimes are being done. And it's clearly not being combated as the way things stand currently which is why a change was suggested, and this is OOC. Someone giving you one liners icly is very much an ooc thing- because they are OOC'ly not putting in effort. 

Well, I already made my suggestion, form a neighborhood watch, like you just said, the restricted crime zone thing would just be stupid, it should be taken IC in my opinion. 

 

Form a neighborhood watch. Put pressure on the LSPD/LSSD to get their asses out of South Central and start fucking with Vinewood street gangs more and keeping them out of the hills, become more aware of the local gangs, push for gang injunctions in Vinewood, If the LSPD can't find them, find them yourself. Cruise through the gang territories in Vinewood (Which you can easily find the locations of by checking the internet section), if you see gang members, look at them, try to figure out if they're wearing the same clothes as the dudes who were on your CCTV.

 

Or alternatively, befriend members of street gangs in Vinewood and try to pay them to deal with people who are fucking with you or your property.

 

 

 

 

[CupcakeCow]

6 minutes ago, Decker said:

I also don't think that some (Well, one, i think u know which one) of those things should be in game for highly obvious reasons. I was simply pointing out that just because a neighborhood is a certain way in reality if it's not like that IC, it's not like that IC. We can't perfectly replicate everything on this game, as much as I'd like Koreatown to be a haven for Latino gangs, for Vinewood to be a complete shithole full of whores, junkies and thugs and for Mirror Park to be the ghetto it is IRL, it's just simply not like that IC, just like how as much as you'd like Vinewood Hills to be safer and to have less robberies going on, that's simply what's going on IC at this moment in time.

 

Well, I already made my suggestion, form a neighborhood watch, like you just said, the restricted crime zone thing would just be stupid, it should be taken IC in my opinion. 

 

Form a neighborhood watch. Put pressure on the LSPD/LSSD to get their asses out of South Central and start fucking with Vinewood street gangs more and keeping them out of the hills, become more aware of the local gangs, push for gang injunctions in Vinewood, If the LSPD can't find them, find them yourself. Cruise through the gang territories in Vinewood (Which you can easily find the locations of by checking the internet section), if you see gang members, look at them, try to figure out if they're wearing the same clothes as the dudes who were on your CCTV.

 

Or alternatively, befriend members of street gangs in Vinewood and try to pay them to deal with people who are fucking with you or your property.

 

 

 

 

And by your own words earlier:

Quote

"IDK if it ever occurred to you but I don't live in the US. "

Now, I don't live in the US. But I have enough American friends online- and we have someone that also posted in the thread who lives in the real life equivalent of this place already explain to us xyz on how it is - which I am sure has more credibility to how the place is to live in than yourself, who you claimed yourself, does not live in the US.
And honestly- I visited America, the airport alone had enough guns to scare my British ass and how much of a shock it was to see guns simply hanging in Walmart, but that is on another topic entirely.
Now for us to handle things IC'ly? Realistically I would assume it would be as much as anyone with access to guns would have, you trepass? You get shot. But on this server? You'd get reported for DM. Even IRL in the UK- we'd have farmers/people on private land with guns, threatening you to get off their land and some even went crazy enough to shoot. 
I think honestly? People would be more than happy to take things into their own hands and solve it in a much more realistic IC approach WITH the script limitations- by being allowed to shoot on sight of any intruders on their personal property. I am all for this! Since the criminals would already be breaching lack of fear being on someone elses land with nefarious intentions. However- we can also agree maybe, most people would report them as vigilante's or  report for dm. So again we must cycle around to find some extra OOC help via better scripts etc to work around this.

And again, pressure on them icly, won't make the OOC stance change- it won't make the OOC issues of them working these when they are already stretched thin any less of an issue. So again, it's a OOC limitation there. 

[Decker]

5 minutes ago, CupcakeCow said:

Now, I don't live in the US. But I have enough American friends online- and we have someone that also posted in the thread who lives in the real life equivalent of this place already explain to us xyz on how it is - which I am sure has more credibility to how the place is to live in than yourself, who you claimed yourself, does not live in the US.

I too have Amercan friends, some of whom live in the neighborhoods I've mentioned. What the guy who mentioned Hollywood failed to mention is that Hollywood IRL is home to two of the most violent, fucked up gangs to ever exist in the US, one of whom's territory resides directly north of the Hollywood Walk Of Fame. A quick look at Google Street View in certain Hollywood streets should give you a pretty clear picture of what the neighborhood is like.

 

[DasFroggy]

1 hour ago, CupcakeCow said:

And by your own words earlier:

Now, I don't live in the US. But I have enough American friends online- and we have someone that also posted in the thread who lives in the real life equivalent of this place already explain to us xyz on how it is - which I am sure has more credibility to how the place is to live in than yourself, who you claimed yourself, does not live in the US.
And honestly- I visited America, the airport alone had enough guns to scare my British ass and how much of a shock it was to see guns simply hanging in Walmart, but that is on another topic entirely.
Now for us to handle things IC'ly? Realistically I would assume it would be as much as anyone with access to guns would have, you trepass? You get shot. But on this server? You'd get reported for DM. Even IRL in the UK- we'd have farmers/people on private land with guns, threatening you to get off their land and some even went crazy enough to shoot. 
I think honestly? People would be more than happy to take things into their own hands and solve it in a much more realistic IC approach WITH the script limitations- by being allowed to shoot on sight of any intruders on their personal property. I am all for this! Since the criminals would already be breaching lack of fear being on someone elses land with nefarious intentions. However- we can also agree maybe, most people would report them as vigilante's or  report for dm. So again we must cycle around to find some extra OOC help via better scripts etc to work around this.

And again, pressure on them icly, won't make the OOC stance change- it won't make the OOC issues of them working these when they are already stretched thin any less of an issue. So again, it's a OOC limitation there. 

 

Something else to keep in mind is that a great deal of the resource limitations the police struggle with are intentional, imposed at the request of the criminal community in the name of "being fair". One recent example of this is the still-standing limitations on how police helicopters can be deployed, with the real-world function of law enforcement airpower typically consisting of several airborne elements simultaneously in a deployed state to observe and report criminal activities as they're detected...

 

...has been forcefully reduced to one helicopter, which can only remain over any one district for no more than three minutes before it is required to move on, or face assured and not insignificant OOC punishment. 

 

Like the police helicopters, prison times are reduced in order to ensure they're not too uncomfortable (again, at the request of the criminal community), investigative resources that could otherwise easily be coded in are instead shut down whenever discussed because anything more modern than 1960's tech and raw grit is just too much for criminals to handle... It'd put criminals at an "unfun" disadvantage to have to deal with realistic barriers, even though some of them turn around and insist that realism is required for their victims... 

[Rickaroni]

4 hours ago, Decker said:

Such an excellent contribution to the conversation! Thank you so much for this comment Rickaroni!

 

It's because you're so hilariously off the mark and doubling down on being so wrong on so many levels that it's not even worth responding to. But since I'm bored, why not?

 

Burglary, breaking and entering, robberies, etc. tend to be crimes of opportunity. They happen, believe it or not, in lower income, higher crime, poverty stricken areas. Do you know why? Because opportunity. Majority of the time your more higher income, more affluent suburbs are less likely to see those sorts of crimes mainly because of a few factors:

 

- Transportation: Those really nice subdivisions where the wealthy people live? They're not usually located where the people that would rob them live. They're usually a ways off. And in America, public transportation (thanks to NIMBY) doesn't usually go from inner cities to those suburbs. Logistically, a lot of those criminals can't actually get out there. So who do they end up robbing and burglarizing? The people/homes in the neighborhood they live in.

 

- Types of Criminal: Who usually does these types of crimes? It's not the heist crew from Heat, let's be real. It's usually junkies or teenagers looking to make a quick few dollars. They get drunk/high, make a rash decision to break into an apartment/house, and that's it. MAJORITY of the break ins aren't people casing your house out for a week and pulling surveillance with a crew of professionals. 

 

Fact of the matter is the security, policing, safety, and overall quality of life in the suburbs and affluent neighborhoods is better. It's totally realistic to say that a break in of a house in the Hills would be considered a heist. 

 

But you know what, you're totally right, I'm wrong. I've only been working in this field for a decade and have seen it first hand. I'm sure you're right though and we're all just idiots.

[Decker]

15 minutes ago, Rickaroni said:

 

It's because you're so hilariously off the mark and doubling down on being so wrong on so many levels that it's not even worth responding to. But since I'm bored, why not?

 

Burglary, breaking and entering, robberies, etc. tend to be crimes of opportunity. They happen, believe it or not, in lower income, higher crime, poverty stricken areas. Do you know why? Because opportunity. Majority of the time your more higher income, more affluent suburbs are less likely to see those sorts of crimes mainly because of a few factors:

 

- Transportation: Those really nice subdivisions where the wealthy people live? They're not usually located where the people that would rob them live. They're usually a ways off. And in America, public transportation (thanks to NIMBY) doesn't usually go from inner cities to those suburbs. Logistically, a lot of those criminals can't actually get out there. So who do they end up robbing and burglarizing? The people/homes in the neighborhood they live in.

 

- Types of Criminal: Who usually does these types of crimes? It's not the heist crew from Heat, let's be real. It's usually junkies or teenagers looking to make a quick few dollars. They get drunk/high, make a rash decision to break into an apartment/house, and that's it. MAJORITY of the break ins aren't people casing your house out for a week and pulling surveillance with a crew of professionals. 

 

Fact of the matter is the security, policing, safety, and overall quality of life in the suburbs and affluent neighborhoods is better. It's totally realistic to say that a break in of a house in the Hills would be considered a heist. 

 

But you know what, you're totally right, I'm wrong. I've only been working in this field for a decade and have seen it first hand. I'm sure you're right though and we're all just idiots.

Yeah you got a few good points but calling it a heist is really a stretch in my opinion. it's not THAT hard to rob somebody. Look at the houses in the hills in the game itself, they're far from the heavily fortified mansions that some people seem to think they are. Do any of them look like they have such insane security that they'd be hard to break into? Because to me personally, most of them don't even have proper gates, they have flimsy wooden gates that one could probably bust a hole in if they really wanted to. To me, they look more ike the regular suburban homes that I see almost every day. Little to no security, and many of them are even furnished to look like regular suburban homes and not fortified mansions.

 

Take this place for example.

 

I don't know about your thoughts, but to me, this place doesn't look at all like something that'd be hard to rob. 

 

Now if you're talking Rockford Hills, then yes I agree. Most of those places would be extremely hard to get into, let alone sucessfully rob because they are ACTUAL mansions.

 

I may have exaggerated with what I was saying about how easy it is to break into a rich person's home and I may have made my point sorta poorly, but the point still stands.

 

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Decker

[cryybabyycryy]

On 8/16/2023 at 8:13 PM, pateuvasiliu said:

Because it can't really be dealt with IC. You can't expect LEO roleplayers to patrol a dead part of the city that sees maybe 1 or 2 breakins a night. That would mean doing nothing for hours.

 

Then there's Option B, which is security mowing down anyone who's trespassing with a mask on, but then you'd start crying that the mallcops are DMing you. You call it an IC issue but it has no good IC solution.

When an issue has no good IC solution that's when you look into OOC solutions.

Ic issue still. Cops shouldn’t be exempt from “dead areas”. 

[Mythology]

On 8/17/2023 at 5:09 AM, pateuvasiliu said:

Some of you people would call gangbangers driving tanks through Legion Square an IC issue.

 

It's not an IC issue because in real life there would be cameras everywhere and facial recognition.

 

Ah yes pull the extreme to justify your arguement, quality debate.

 

On 8/17/2023 at 5:13 AM, pateuvasiliu said:

Because it can't really be dealt with IC. You can't expect LEO roleplayers to patrol a dead part of the city that sees maybe 1 or 2 breakins a night. That would mean doing nothing for hours.

 

Then there's Option B, which is security mowing down anyone who's trespassing with a mask on, but then you'd start crying that the mallcops are DMing you. You call it an IC issue but it has no good IC solution.

When an issue has no good IC solution that's when you look into OOC solutions.

Yes it can be, but you don't wanna put in the effort/brain thought. 

 

So I say again: IC issue.

[LeNova]

1 hour ago, Mythology said:

 

Ah yes pull the extreme to justify your arguement, quality debate.

 

Yes it can be, but you don't wanna put in the effort/brain thought. 

 

So I say again: IC issue.

Yeah, it's an IC issue that people aren't gonna RP being on guard from morning till night as if it'd be their IRL job. True. People don't have a life besides GTA:W and are definitely not limited to playing a few hours or less a day. I don't have any bias, I play both as civilian and criminal and I have to admit that this is just something  you should use some common sense with. What would make sense, what wouldn't make sense, how would things be IRL to keep it fair for everyone since the server has limitations. 

Anyway, I didn't know a trespasser that made their way into your actual home, inside, aren't allowed to be blasted. Is this really considered as DM? That's ridiculous in my opinion. THAT should be an IC issue. 

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by LeNova