TheSaintEaon

What time zones are you guys in? I'm interested in hanging out to RP, but as I'm in an American time-zone I have a hard time getting RP with a lot of factions.

Another good night chilling with you guys. Even if a little tense at times.

If they don't hold it over your head, then having the record is pointless. The point of the record is so that it can be referred to and decisions can be made because of it. If its not being used, then don't keep the record.

Maybe. I think though that if someone is a known troublemaker, metagamer, and DMer, that's going to be on their record for awhile. Do you think that someone that does an excessive amount of these things is going to be able to be active for 12 to 18 months and not continually rack up more reports? Under my idea, you have to have No new reports in order to get your slate wiped clean and any new report starts the timer for all of the existing reports all over again. Meaning any serial offenders are still going to have records accessible. OOC Ejections from factions based on OOC Ruling in any case excluding factions such as the PD are not acceptable unless the infraction was committed against the faction that person is in. I don't know if guild banks are like a thing here, but for example: If someone stole from the faction's bank and asset transfered it over to an alt. That faction should be allowed to remove that dick and he deserves the multiple A-jails or temp bans he gets. However if a dude is RPing a cop who's been down on his luck or awhile and then in RP he one day snaps and shoots a repeat offender, and that later gets voided by an admin due to poor portrayal or something, I don't think that's a valid reason to remove someone from a faction. IC actions that result in OOC consequences should not affect IC. OOC Kicks are legitimately metagaming and if you have Generic Gangbanger #6 hanging around your faction trying to join it and you think he's not a good fit, CK him. I don't think there's a single illegal faction on the board that doesn't include the right to CK people who fuck up ICly. If he's fucking up OOCly, report him to the admins, they'll probably be happy to remove another troll.

While they did not expressly state that, it is implied by their stance. If having a record available shows growth, then by that same logic, not having a record shows no growth. I might be wrong in that assumption and if I am, he's free to clarify and I'm happy to clarify my thoughts as well ^.^ My thoughts are actually similar to what you posted, with the aside of, the community doesn't get to tell a player what they do and do not accept based upon their OOC records. OOC records at the most should be restricted to Admins for the purposes of decision making or agencies like the PD who do PF Licensing, specifically in regards to said license. A player or player run organisation that uses OOC Reports or A-Jails to determine the validity of a roleplayer is metagaming by definition. The fact that they are allowed to still be on the server means they are by definition a valid player, and so using OOC records against them is actually to be in violation yourself. Which ultimately brings us back around to the point I was trying to make earlier, what is the point in having a record if it can be so old that its functionally irrelevant? Personally I could see like two ways to resolve this: First no player or player run agency can ask to see your OOC Records. They are sealed and that is between the player and the Administration. The second is that records after a certain amount of time if no further infractions are committed, then the infractions should be removed. I think either is acceptable.

An interesting answer. Why do you feel you're entitled to be shown the growth of a person or roleplayer, and further why do you feel that expunging of a no longer relevant record and thus cleaning the slate of a person is somehow showing less growth?

Fair enough I guess. I was just hoping you had some reasoning behind that other than "Because"

"Because you've still done it?" Doesn't win the argument though. If you got a-jailed, then had zero infractions for a set period of time, you've done that too. You committed the crime, taken the punishment, and been rehabilitated as best as the system can muster. "It doesn't really matter" is your stance, not mine. I think it does matter. I think if someone joins a pretty hardcore RP server and in their first 2 weeks gets flagged for poor portrayal, learns from it, improves, and doesn't have the issue anymore a flag like that should be stricken from their record. If all it takes to make a record not matter is you taking time to explain that you've improved, then the record doesn't really matter, and if the record doesn't really matter there's no point in keeping it. The record only matters if the player repeatedly breaks rules and constantly wracks up A-Jails, and even then it should only really matter to Admins or things like PF Licenses where said player would get easy access to things that could be used to make other people's times significantly worse. For someone who one time had a bad day, got a-jailed, and never let it happen again, there's no point in keeping a record on them or have them present it. You're the only who wants to keep records forever though, I've justified my position to you, justify your position to me. If by your own words it shouldn't matter, then why should we keep those records? Bear in mind that "Because you did it" is not a particularly strong argument, as in the presupposed situation, you also didn't reoffend for a significant portion of time.

I think you're kinda making my point. If you can just explain that your only infraction was years ago and you've learned from it, and you've had no infractions sense, and your employer be fine with that, why did that employer need to see that infraction to begin with? If the argument is "If you really have learned, it won't matter what's on your record." then why keep the record?

"If you'd give people the ability to appeal and remove their past punishments from their profiles at a later date what point is there to punishing at all." Is terrible logic. The point of punishment is to correct undesirable behavior, not to brand someone for eternity. That said, I don't think there should be a set "after 1.5 years from this date this punishment will be expunged." I think it should have a few factors, like if a year passes and you don't get any more OOC action against you, then maybe it should be dropped, but if you step out of line even once and get another a-jail or whatever, I think it should reset them timers.

I think there should be some appeals. I have exactly one A jail on my record and it was given to me by someone who at the time was a trial admin and I don't believe it was handled fairly. In fact it was one of the largest reasons I quit outright about a year ago because it left me with such a bad taste in my mouth. To put it shortly, I got an A-Jail for at the time according to this admin, lying about a forum report and getting shitty with the other people in the thread. I could handle the a-jail for getting shitty with the people in the thread. I have an issue with the lying though. I was asked to be a witness to an incident I was not apart of but saw. I guess because I had no RP in the logs because I wasn't technically apart of the incident and because I was only like a week or two old at the time and didn't think to screen shot other people's RP, the admin assumed I was lying to waste time. When I got A-Jailed for lying to staff I took that as a personal insult. Punish me for something I actually did, not something you think I did but have no real evidence of. It still bothers me anytime I have to submit my record for things like PF Licenses because I feel like lying to staff is one of the WORST things a player can do and I don't feel I earned that brand. I would be nice to not have to carry it around one day.

Was a good time hanging out with you all last night.

Even if you make that stretch, and it is a big stretch, one in ten is high. Again, 45,000 according to the LAPD in a city of 4 million. That's like one in a thousand. Also just because you knew someone at some point in your life who might have joined a gang does not mean you have "ties" to a gang. Ties imply some sort of bond, having known someone who did a thing at some point of your life. You also seem to have the idea that in LA everyone lives in the ghetto or in lower middle class neighborhoods. That's not the case. As bad as the South Side might be, there's still Hollywood and Beverly Hills in LA as well. Home to the ultra rich and some of the most famous colleges in America. The fact of the matter is for as famous as LA's gang problem has been made through pop culture and the rap industry, it exists within a town that is even more famous for its other industries. By your logic if all it takes to be affiliated with something is to know of someone who was in the thing once, then by that logic, you must be a girl scout because you probably met one at some time. But that's enough of this, I don't think we're gonna change anyone's mind and we're derailing the topic at hand.

Never called you stupid. Called your claim stupid, which it was, and still is. There's no way that 50% of LA is Gang Affiliated or aware of gangs. That's an insane thing to think. Even if the statistics don't include past gang members who've got to jail, died, or left the gang life you don't get close to that actual number. There's only 115 inmates in all of California in prison, so unless 100% of them are in prison for being in gangs, both male and female, the idea that they're simply in prison is out. And even if you do include 100% of all inmates, you're still only at like 2%. The math doesn't add up. The population numbers just aren't there. I'm sorry you're just wrong.

Even if that's only recorded, the idea that you jump from 1/10th of 1% to 50% is so unrealistic the claim is insane. Also like @knppel said, everything is too high. If we forced people to use real life stats we'd have less than 1 gangster. Only about 15 Military Vets. Probably less than 10 business owners. The setting couldn't function.