Caracosa

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but are we talking about replacing ULSA with a high school? ULSA can create RP for potentially the entire playerbase, but Richman High would be super niche. I think replacing ULSA will limit RP opportunities. ULSA is the Los Santos representation of the world famous University of California system. Realistically any character on the server could go to ULSA if they had money/grades/scholarships. They could be a poor kids from South Los Santos, they could be from another state or another country, they could be a college athlete, they could be fresh out of high school or an older person coming back for more, they could be taking classes during the day or taking night classes after their job. Lots of options! But high schools are normally more territorial. Richman High School would realistically only be taking rich teenagers from Richman, Del Perro, Vinewood Hills, and other nearby neighbourhoods. I strongly suggest a more central location like downtown or South Los Santos if you want to reach most of the teenage characters. (IDK which building would be good.) But that will also mean teachers and students will want to be familiar with the local area. For example, Norma Mendoza-Denton's research shows high school teachers trying to mediate the Sureno-Norteno rivalry in their classrooms, and these kids aren't always gang members, it's a cultural thing. But on that note Joey Nunez Estrada, et al. (Health Education Research, Volume 28, Issue 4, August 2013) found that about 10% of California 7th graders said they were in gangs. I imagine the challenges of RPing high school will be similar to county jail, and there's a reason that schools are often compared to jails in academia. The way to avoid this would be to try creating a private school or just stick to a rich neighbourhood, but I still wouldn't like to see ULSA used for something so limited. I know I'm being critical, but I really do like the idea of school RP.

I think this is super positive news. I think most of us appreciate this is a work in progress that is always moving forward. I feel like this is an area that might still require special attention, especially considering how recent co-ed interactions have ICly spread into court cases and news articles, effectively transforming Twin Towers into a co-ed facility. IMO it's a great start! Obviously perfection is impossible and a single faction can't be expected to handle something this big by themselves, but isn't the long-term solution to create a women's facility/wing? Realistically there would be less violence and no male-style prison gangs, so presumably it would require less attention from guards/admins. Obviously that all takes a lot of work, but surely in the long-term the entire community has enough talent to handle this. I don't think we should be too pessimistic, GTAW is its own thing and always growing. ?

Then we already have gender segregation, based on what I'm reading here and elsewhere. So we might as well just physically separate male and female inmates. Female characters are apparently already experiencing this segregation (or being treated as "trans" apparently). We might as well make it official and allow female inmate RP to develop in a unique way. Realistically these jail politics shouldn't have anything to do with female inmates. The social dynamics are different.

Yes please! Even if it's boring at first, I'd love to see female jail/prison RP given the space to grow in a realistic setting. The female jail/prison vibe is very different with different politics and social dynamics. Obviously the prison gang factions, who understandably dominate the county jail, don't want women in there because it's unrealistic, and surely nobody is really down with this transexual magic vibe. Either characters are trans or they aren't. Let's start segregating from the start. The "racial gangs" (prison gang factions) have power over inmates depending on the race of the character. This reflects the style of segregation in Los Angeles County and California. So in GTAW county jail anyone can be forced into RPing with one of these factions, depending on race. They also have the power to force children and women into RP, depending on race.

Obviously total realism is impossible, but for anyone who is curious: "Where Gangs are housed in LA County Jail" Source: Deputy John Williams, "Gangs 101", an internal presentation by the Custody Training Unit of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, 2010. Acronyms weren't explained, but here are a few guesses: TTCF: Twin Towers Correctional Facility NCCF: North County Correctional Facility PDC: Pitchess Detention Center MCJ: Men's Central Jail CRDF: Century Regional Detention Facility (all female facility) Greg Hill & Associates provides another perspective on sorting/segregation. They are criminal defense lawyers in Los Angeles County, who obviously provide services in Spanish too: https://www.greghillassociates.com/i-visited-someone-in-jail-what-do-the-shirt-colors-mean.html That's a POV from County Sheriffs and some defense lawyers. For a more a more inmate-oriented POV on the relationship between jail/prison segregation and street culture, I suggest the work of Patrick Aguado-Lopez, especially "Stick Together and Come Back Home: Racial Sorting and the Spillover of Carceral Identity". He looks at how the jail system actually changes the dynamics on the streets, for both the established gangs and the break-away/greenlight gangs, reinforcing identity/culture/loyalty based on race/geography/neighbourhood.

IMO the level of realism needs to be increased before this is considered. In the current system we've had men RPing with women and children, and in general I don't think we have the style of segregation that defines carceral culture in Los Angeles County and California. I appreciate total realism is impossible, but I think we can go further as a community. All of this is so important to gang culture, including on the streets, and the influence goes all the way down to non-gang affiliated friends and family. A larger population would make it easier to increase realism, but I'd like to see us commit to a higher standard of realism before moving forward. I know we are still in the early days of the project, and there's so much excitement for jail RP right now, but I hope we don't rush.

Forgive me if I'm being super dumb here. I feel like I'm misunderstanding something really obvious. Because if female characters are RPing in the same physical space as male characters, that means female characters now fall under the influence of prison gangs. That changes things up with potential CK-level ramifications that wouldn't otherwise exist. But I do appreciate the argument that the co-ed thing is a good way to bring more people together for RP. And I also appreciate you taking the time to help me see this from a different angle.

We're in an announcement thread and lots of people are discussing things. I apologize to Nervous and the County Sheriff's Department faction if I've stepped out of line. But this is their faction thread:

IMO there are already immersion/realism concerns, even for characters outside of jail. There is a deep and cyclical relationship between the street life and incarcerated life. My understanding is that the culture and politics of Los Angeles Hispanic street gangs is influenced by boys/men entering the jail/prison system, where they are exposed to Sureno culture and the political heart of the Mexican Mafia. They bring all this back with them to the streets upon release. (Similar to non-gang members from Fresno turning into Bulldogs on the inside.) But Latinas are never exposed to that. This is one of many factors explaining why women can't climb the hierarchy in the same way: women are physically cut off from the prison gangs. If we are to RP like co-ed county jail was always a thing, it retcons a lot of history and character development, and should probably shake up the sex/gender situation for many illegal factions. We no longer have real life sources to draw upon for inspiration/guidance. For example, what about Hispanic female gang members/associates who have been in and out of the system ICly and RPed jail/prison sentences? What was their experience like? How does that change the culture and politics? How does that change the available roles, expectations, etc, etc? And certainly my last year of RP would be different if my character was raised knowing she could be incarcerated with her brothers, homeboys, boyfriends, etc. It certainly retcons many conversations and scenes I've RPed.

Thinking realistically, this is an absolutely terrifying scenario for female characters. IMO it also completely changes the culture of illegal RP, including at the street level, since many street gangs are linked culturally and politically to prison gangs. Tbh I have no idea how to RP this or approach it ICly.

If you look at traditional masculinity/femininity in most cultures, it's less about the body and more about the vibe. GTAW gives us all the tools to create a feminine vibe. For me a text server is all about the writing, so IMO we should try to RP this as if nobody can see our characters. We can convey masculinity or femininity with dialogue, emotes, personality, actions, culture, etc. Look at how actual human beings move, speak, and act in the real world. Look at people in motion, look at the small gestures, the little quirks. IMO messing around with measurements and ratios isn't enough to create a feminine impression. We can totally apply this principle more broadly. I can write "shy" in my description, but that's totally meaningless unless I actually RP shyness moment by moment, hour by hour, day by day.

October 27th