Vice_

This is exactly what I'm talking about. If we're to make crude descriptions, then we're asking for crude results. Every single day there's a complaint, an argument, or a total sadness that befalls someone whose entire situation is at the behest of that chat box. If you're looking to write and read a story, then read and write a story. /me nods are not a contribution. It's a lily pad to use before jumping the gun - literally. Who's to say, whether the gameplay was a result of the writing or the writing of the gameplay -- either way? it's not as though we can't afford to change it. The people will always get the government they deserve. And in the same right; the community will always get the server it deserves.

The love of writing and encouraging others to write well isn't pretentious. It's pretentious to call that pretentious. It's pretentious to say that it's a form of "stalling", or that it's like "smelling one's own farts". It's an art. And whether or not you admit it, you're contributing to that art one way or another. Why not try and make that art something gorgeous? Why is it so "cool" not to care? It fascinates me, that like, considering the amount of time most people spend playing GTAW, that this is the overall consensus. Essentially, what that tells me... Is you're boasting about spending hours upon hours on a writing game, but don't care for writing. And, it's fun because...? Also, obviously tone gets lost in writing words - especially on the forum. People assume I'm sit here, smug, smoking a pipe and glowering over the text as if I'm here to put anyone down. I'm not. I'm simply acknowledging that this is a writing game. I'm acknowledging that there's a lack of effort in people's writing. And bringing up this topic shouldn't be met with so much hatred or spite or resistance - but it does. If you're not going to put "power" behind the firewall of being an avid writer, and instead put it behind gameplay features, you're asking for the majority of the player-base to not care about what's on that page. Again, it seems to me that all the resistance comes from a deeper, rooted sense of pride, based solely off the fact that if we were to acknowledge quality of writing as valuable, perhaps more valuable than assets or gameplay design (ie: how good of a shot you are), then it threatens everything people hold dear. And that, right there, is so, so, so sad. Because, there's really, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, a much better, more rewarding experience that awaits - beyond the script items. If you're frustrated with certain events, or characters, or how something had played out. Or, you're frustrated with red tape, or certain aspects of your time spent playing... I can safely assume that 99%-%100 of that disgruntlement is based off quality of RP. There's nothing wrong with people wanting to learn how to write. I love writing. There's nothing wrong with people wanting to provide detail. I eat that shit up. There's nothing wrong with providing people with a sense of belonging and worth that has nothing to do with in-game assets. I pray that others feel the same. So, yeah. If we're pretentious... As "avid writers" or "paragraph RPers", what the fuck does that make you? Cool? You're still sitting behind a computer, playing a writing game for hours and hours on end. Mind you, one of /the/ most odd, obscure and hard to talk about platforms. We're all one step away from DnDers and LARPers. Except, what, because you don't type with detail and bash people that do, you're suddenly... What, not playing the same game? That sounds like a bunch of Commy gobildy-gook.

Okay. Let's play that out. /me handcuffs John Smith. (RESIST?) [John Smith] doesn't resist. So. What's the point of that. Like, you brought this up. You tell me. You convince me. Pretend that I don't know anything about roleplay, or writing, or that I've never even heard of GTA before. Because, to both a laymen or veteran of this trade... It sounds as though the chatbox is a hinderance. That, it just seems an absolute annoying factor. It begs the question... Why even fucking write anything to begin with. If your answer is "because in the rules it says you have to type (...)", that's not an answer. That's meaningless. And crude. You tell me how that type of RP is meaningful, and I'll eat my shorts.

The OP does. I do. And avid writers do. The entire purpose of this thread was to discuss why this stuff is stigmatized. And not only that, but more importantly, to possibly find other players who play with the same style. Clearly this way of thinking is opposed. I don't understand how or why, but certainly people take it offensively. This way of playing comes naturally, I suppose, to a certain demographic - the original demographic of roleplayers. This entire idea of "RP isn't writing", or even the ways in which people /do/ write these days, is something entirely new and not exactly proving to be helpful. /me looks through the glove compartment. (WHAT DO THEY FIND?!) Fuck, man, I was gonna' write what you'd see anyways... Chill out... /me handcuffs the man. (RESIST OR NOT?!) Fuck, dude... How about you let me write and you'll see? Again, it's painfully obvious to me that the quickened sense of "let me have my cake now" is entirely the source of so many problems on GTAW. And these problems are nothing new. The RP community at large has been dealing with this for as long as MUD, or HL2RP. Even now, there's threads that beg the question "How can we make Character Deaths better?" -- it's fucking obvious. Write well. Respect the player by providing them with story. "Why is LCN RP stigmatized?" -- fucking obvious. If it was full of verbose writers and slow-burning storytellers, you wouldn't have that problem. How about not writing /me hands package of money. -- Like, God. Get a grip. "Yeah, Davis is full of stupid people." Yeah, no shit. Why do people say that? Oh, maybe it's because the average reading level is akin to kindergarten. People, somehow, think that by acknowledging the fact that this is a writing game, it eliminates all sense of ownership over how they're perceived. Coupled with the design of GTAW, prowess is depicted in those who have assets and power in factions (ie: access to more assets). By admitting to the fact that a good vocabulary and sense to tell a story is of higher value than all of that? It becomes personal. That's the real issue here. Now, I understand that communities like these, and other RP platforms provide a sense of belonging. Yet, in how that belonging is approached and what it truly means? Well, that's what we have to ask ourselves. Personally, I'd rather be apart of a community that supports a timeless skill and harbors one of Earth's most favored pass-times: storytelling. And I guess I gotta' be the one that says it? But... Sure, "good" writing can be subjective -- but it needs to have at least a standard to enter the debate of what's right or wrong. The sad part of all this, is that, for those of you who don't believe that "paragraph writing" or even the act of putting effort into learning vocabulary, expression, and so forth is of any practical use... Just wait. Wait until you are shot in the face, for the hundredth time. Wait until you have all the money, the guns, the cars. Then, sit there, twiddling your thumbs... Still unsatisfied. Eventually, you might come to the realization that you were chasing the wrong thing. That, after all, the experience you had /was/ the point. And, maybe, just maybe, you should have put a tiny bit of effort into your writing. Because, no matter how much you try or wail, or hate it... That chatbox is all there is. That's the game, right there.

Literally not.

No one has really answered the OP's question, at all.

Yeah, these might be facts. These might be truths of our environment. Yet, these are also the consequences of a certain play-style. If people were to paragraph write, then perhaps it'd be easier to follow conversations in the bars and taverns. At the very least, the box of text wouldn't be a constant matrix run of letters. If people were to take their time and it was universally accepted that we're here to tell good stories, and not to one-up and "win", we might not be so desperate to enact situations like one would fuck without foreplay.

Yeah, but no one said that long /me's are well-written /me's, or the best /me's. And as for the time? What else are you doing with your time?

Yeah, but, you don't know me. I /do/ associate and coexist with players that don't type in the same fashion. I've also been playing on this platform (third-person, objective-narrative writing) for almost 20 years and I can tell who wants to tell a story; and who doesn't. This thread isn't about blaming those players, because we're upset -- because we're not. If anything, the only thing I find upsetting is that a thread like this can easily be a spark to flame "what a fucking douche bag bitch, telling us how to play." -- when in reality, we're in the minority. By we, I mean, storytellers. They come in all varieties and have all varieties of vocabulary. And as far as "teaching" players how to write? It's not the act of shoving it down someone's throat. It's extending an olive branch, to Mr. Miyagi someone through playing with them. That's all it is. And it's cool, homie. It's fun to write. Except, what's not fun is having to defend a love for exploring literary devices on a game based on literature.

I struggle to find the beauty of one-liner /me's that lack any color. No matter what, you're submitting something to that box of text, the /actual/ game that we're playing. It's my opinion that it should be done with love and care. That's not a big ask, especially on a platform that's entire gameplay is /within/ that box of text. It /is/ a reading and writing game. There's just no two ways about it. If by any chance, you're suggesting that it's not, it only further proves that there's a disassociation and fascinating mindset that is in denial of what game people are actually playing.

Oh, absolutely. 100% agree that it's a direct consequence of why people play to this extent. I'm just saying, it's not really fun for anyone. Or, if it is, I guess I just don't understand how or why you'd play a writing game and not want to write. And that applies to police as well, or anyone who's gotten lost at sea, considering the scale and pacing. The fact of the matter is, if narrative was at the forefront of people's minds, people would be less paranoid, more communicative, and overall a cooperative community. You may not need to do anything. By way of the rules, I just need to type /me starts lockpicking to pass the standard. Yet, just because it doesn't serve a purpose, doesn't mean it's not fun. Painting. Dancing. Music. Writing. The arts are to be played. And while you may not /need/ to write those descriptions, maybe it's just a form of meditation and practice to do so, anyways? I'm not telling anyone what to do, what to say, what to write. Yet, acknowledging that the way in which people RP on GTAW, and the OP's point of question to where are the players who write this way, and why is it stigmatized? Well, that's really the main topic here. It would be funny, if it wasn't so sad, that obviously we're cut of the same cloth, but at ends with one another - and I can't understand why. It's not wrong to have an opinion about writing. This love affair. This rewarding practice of reading and writing. Games are meant to be played; and for sport, not for /serious/ purpose. And so often we've forsaken the joys of this platform -- and what makes it worth while. At least, that's my opinion.

Or, 95% of players haven't been exposed to another way of thinking and another way of playing. There's no denying that GTAW is a "fast paced" environment. Yet, that excuse is a straw-man argument, because the reasons it is that way, are because of the players themselves -- and there's no one holding a gun to someone's head, forcing people to RP a certain way--... Oh wait, there is. Literally, the quick-emoting, one-liner, goopy-goblin-gamer-brains that despise literary devices. Again, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. We are in a reading and writing game, yes? This is a place for hobbyists who enjoy story, right? And following the rules? It's hysterical to me. I've not once had an admin intervene. I've not had one argument OOCly. I've hardly had to read the rules, except when first joining, because they really don't effect the writer and the poet. They're applied to folks who break the parameters of the game; and while you may think that writers like myself are on the fringes, I dare say we are dead center, helping this machine you love so much to turn and work well.

Yeah, but I think this is the point: we can't coexist. Players like me, or others that enjoy writing will be shunned, stomped on, chewed up and spit out by players who are quick to draw, hardly playing characters with character, and in a ton of instances, drive off because we're "one of those" players -- because they're quick to reach the end. Their goal. But... Art isn't based on how quick one could write, or paint, or even play music. It's as if you're saying the only good music there is, is the shortest and quickest. And that's just not true, at all. edit: Also, I'm more than capable of playing with others, being cooperative, and generating content for anyone I come across. I'm not the one that comments negatively OOC about the way in which one plays, or drive's off mid-emote. I'm not the one that says writing is an issue. Again, my side didn't draw first blood. But-- I'm not going to stand and take a punch on the nose for writing well. That's ridiculous.

You were essentially suggesting that writing in purple prose, or at the very least, any prose is a public display of mental-masturbation. That, by showcasing writing is in-fact not only offensive, but inherently destructive. Yet... To what? The other writing? This is what fascinates me. By proxy, you're suggesting that the opposite is the true grit and real meat of the game itself. Yet... That's... What? Simplistic emotes that have no nuance. A third-person shooter of cops v. robbers. Unpacking your words simply leads me to string together the following: That, it's better to be a goopy-goblin-gamer-brain, who wants to only use the chatbox as a vehicle to drive headfirst into "what's fun". It's obvious that people who believe the text on the top-left of the screen are all the more annoyed and begrudged to write themselves, as it seems a hinderance. It's hardly an attitude that's coveting true intentions of playing a third-person shooter lacking any nuance or story... And that, sir, is what's really a public display of mental-masturbation. edit: Clearly, I'm exaggerating to prove a point -- but in itself, I feel like this is the crux of the issue. The passive display of "eh, it's not a problem, I mean, do what you want, I guess" doesn't fly, when there's clearly a better way to play this game.

Hello, friend here. Personally, this issue is absolutely fascinating to me. We've discussed this plenty. And although there's a variety of conversations in the community about different roleplay, no one has actually stopped to ask what the root of our problems are. It seems obvious to me. That, in fact, quality of writing and the ability to express oneself eliminates all manner of misunderstandings, circumvents gameplay issues and rules (specifically around shooting mechanics), and provides the actual, immersive experience that everyone hints about wanting on this platform. There was a day, when those who wrote with distinctive prose and had poetic prowess, had the upper-hand. They were regarded as community leaders, providers of story, themes and meaningful interactions. And while they may have been just players, these writers were respected and cherished -- because they were able to bring out the best in others, support the community, and help establish narratives. Now, I've tried over the years to perhaps "prove a point" and "convince" players to lean towards this way of thinking; but perhaps it perplexes me even further, that it should be so obvious, that this is a reading and writing game - the visuals only aiding in depicting the setting and characters there-in. I feel as if I'm taking crazy pills sometimes -- left wondering why people would even care to play a game, or even write certain emotes (/me pulls gun, /me starts engine of car), etc. And I don't think our side drew first blood. Usually, players like us are more than happy to teach, to provide, to take on apprentices who want to learn this style and how to write effectively. We are constantly looking for more akin to loving what this game truly is about: reading and writing in cooperation.