Are Police/SD/Judicial becoming power drunk?

[Soyuz]

33 minutes ago, Tmthn678 said:

 

- A DA threatening to have "secret LSSD gangs" seize all of their assets if they don't plead guilty. (Not-so-secret gangs anymore).

 

 

Bruh that was a meme that never happened IC'ly.

[dollar]

14 minutes ago, SIUUUUUUUUUUUUU said:

they fr on a power trip, a cop stopped me because I honked at him just because he was sitting in the middle of the street talking to his up n coming e-gf

 

Same! Blew my horn for only like a full 5 seconds at a police cruiser that just came to a stop outside the Mission Row Station yesterday and proceeded to pass him out. Stopped me and wrote me a citation! What a buster...

[Deqavious]

Just now, Soyuz said:

 

Bruh that was a meme that never happened IC'ly.

1) Common Courtesy

You're expected to be roleplaying at all times

[Price]

3 minutes ago, Mahiko said:

actual high tier corruption permissions that allow some of these things

 

Since my leaderhsip as DA, 0. 

 

33 minutes ago, Tmthn678 said:

- A DA threatening to have "secret LSSD gangs" seize all of their assets if they don't plead guilty. (Not-so-secret gangs anymore).

 

33 minutes ago, Tmthn678 said:

-A DA reporting individuals because they would not provide OOC information that could lead to metagame. 

 

I'd love to know who in my faction is doing this. You can't complain about how we act then when faction leaders quickly ask who it is, you say you won't provide information/evidence to back your claims up to help us. This fixes nothing as you refuse to tell us who the problem makers are.

 

You made a thread complaining about us being drunk with power, please submit the evidence here and I'll address it here, publically, as a faction leader if you want. Or I can address it privately. I have nothing to hide nor do we allow that type of behavior if this is in fact true.

 

 

 

[waterwings]

13 minutes ago, Tmthn678 said:

what is realistic, versus what isn't, with knowing what you can get away with. 

If you look into real-life examples you'll find very egregious things to the point of entire police gangs covering up murders done by themselves. Real-life can't really be used to construe what is realistic and what isn't, it's needed to form a balance on what the average cop should or shouldn't be agreeing with. I don't think that corruption is that much of an issue as there are rather other things that need to change (mindset) which is very difficult. Some cops have excellent mind-sets, some dont. One faction has, on average, a better mindset than the other. In those factions, some divisions seem to have a great mindset, whilst another division doesn't. Some players in division A seem to have a bad mindset, but when they join division B, they flourish and seem to have a really good one. But there isn't a real way to change the mindset of a larger base of players.

 

10 minutes ago, Mahiko said:

Maybe you could assist with some ballpark numbers on the amount of individuals with actual high tier corruption permissions that allow some of these things. (Not talking ignoring misdemeanors, or burnout with foul language) 

I wish I could, but I'm not PD or SD or SFM or SAPR leadership so don't have access to the numbers for these factions. Most of the things mentioned here could be done without explicit corruption perms and are acceptable by the base corruption perms. What matters more is character development and portrayal. If you're cornered by three other officers that you've never met before and/or there's a sergeant nearby, you're very unlikely to do something weird. If you're with your partner who you've known for ten years, it would be much more reasonable to kick someone a couple extra times after he's already down.

 

If you see something very minor (verbal abuse), you wouldn't be likely to report a colleague (even if you haven't met him before). Blue wall of silence is real thick. If you see something that is more egregious, that wall gets more and more thin.

 

 

 

IMHO, the corruption perms are some of the best we've seen in years. It is portrayal and mindset that regulates issues. For example just last year, when I was in PD, I took a neo-nazi from Vespucci in my car after he did some illegal stuff, drove halfway to South Central and told him that if I had to take him with me again I would finish that ride and leave him on the streets. Would my character have actually followed through Absolutely not. Would he have threatened anyone else? No, but neo-nazis are absolutely not getting any level of respect or courtesy from that character. That specific circumstance led to it, and would not likely have repeated under any other circumstance. The only alternative was arresting that character- He goes to jail and all it does is cement his character as a criminal instead of someone who's hanging with the wrong characters that might still see redemption.

I find this acceptable- Some others might find this weird OOC. Where do you draw the line? That can be difficult, which is why it's better to look at the individual character (the officer) and see why he would do something versus having a static line that leads to immediate OOC dismissal. The main thing that needs to be moderated here is again an OOC mindset.

 

 

Also, the DA threatening secret gangs stuff was done purely as a joke. Weird joke if you read it out of context? Sure, but this never ACTUALLY happened IC, just seems like someone cropped a picture and distributed that versus the complete picture.

Edited June 5, 2023 by BjornV

[Martyn]

Where do y'all even find all these corrupt cops? Asking for a friend. 

[liq]

This continues to happen. There's people allegedly being detectives but not understanding a yote of investigative role-play nor what the server actually has in terms of tools & uses for investigations. Most cops are reactive & it isn't their fault that they get dragged into situations (don't forget, most violent crime on the server is still the result of some factions, but the vast majority are factionless players who're here to shoot and kill only).

 

Those same cop role-players (speaking on this as a cop role-players myself) start crying when you use the courts and the server's legal system against them. Nobody says that corruption isn't fun or necessary, but what isn't fun is trooping through as a cop & believing the server is your little stomping ground for you to do as you please and raid everyone with no helmets as if you don't care.

 

The most laughable thing ever is prosecutors (DA faction members) being judges on alts and approving their friend's warrants. Warrants should always be free-of-conflict-of-interest, there's a lot of judges who have no ties to any law enforcement faction, it's OK to let them handle things instead of stepping in at the first whiff of something. 

 

In general, the system is easy and the quality of actual police role-play has been on a steady decline for a while. Most cop role-players are here to shoot, kill and be edgy instead of meaningfully engage with the community around them. Most of them have this primal desire to win as if they don't win in 99.99% of the time anyway. The goal has moved in recent time from good police role-play to ... whatever these little cliques of memers and edgy people are. You're meant to role-play a cop and provide that type of role-play to the community at large, not star in your own HBO crime drama where you're the main character and everything revolves around you. Nonetheless to say most interactions are lackluster at best and there's no willingness to role-play anything past face value—when cop role-players act like this (and right now, a good chunk of them do), then the community at large and especially the illegal community has zero interest to interact with them more than that in return.

 

 

This is still the case. Most legal role-players talk about realism as if they sleep with it together but as soon as that "realism" doesn't fit their agenda, it doesn't exist. 😂

 

On a side note, the real GOATs of this discussion are the Judiciary of San Andreas / Courts & the District Attorney. Hadn't it been for them, the whole server would be stuck in a jail that no one staffs even with 20-30 inmates on often times. Props to them for keeping the legal system of fair checks and balances together—there's so much work because the cop role-players create so much work out of nothing nowadays and, more often than not, those crazy wait times aren't anyone's fault.

Edited June 5, 2023 by liq

[sevo]

34 minutes ago, Tmthn678 said:

- Officers threatening to seize a car over dark tints because they did not like the player was swearing at them ICly.

I won't comment on this specific example (as tinted windows does not warrant an impound unless it is the third offence as per the penal code), but this is a realistic outcome. When charges have an element of officer discretion to them, it is at the discretion of the officer on how they wish to proceed with the charges. If you're an asshole to a cop in real life, why would you expect them to be kind and lenient with the charges they administer, when they have the power to screw up your day because you've screwed up theirs? That's just how it is in real life. I don't see this as an OOC issue at all.

 

38 minutes ago, Tmthn678 said:

them having a degree of OOC protection from server rules & an overall script advantage (Cops being able to spawn weapons every time they die, having no real consequences to death, and having the ability to carry over 500 ammo which I have seen on many screens), and their obviously perceived power over other players.

Every single player is held to the same server rule standards, as are administrators. They do not have any degree of "OOC protection" from the server rules, and referring to the ability to equip a firearm as a script advantage is not comparable to this. Cops being able to spawn weapons every time they die, is unfortunately just the way it is? Los Angeles peace officers are armed. I don't really understand what you are implying by this. As for death consequences, the very same can be said for civilian/illegal role-players. They lose their items that they have in their inventory, so do LEO role-players. Legal factions cannot equip weapons with over 500 ammo to my knowledge. They certainly don't have 500 ammo in their pistols.

 

41 minutes ago, Tmthn678 said:

- Police officers slamming an individual against a car and cuffing them, causing them to have a seizure and then telling everyone they slipped, then leaving without any bit of follow up RP to the player in fear of being caught being corrupt.

This is a unique example that you have provided but I am struggling to understand what point you are trying to make with this remark.

 

42 minutes ago, Tmthn678 said:

- Officers insisting a player is cuffed or uncuffed when they forgot to type a /me.

The /cuff script should be the fail-safe for this. If the player is not cuffed by this command then assume they are not cuffed. Of course consider the element of common courtesy - if a player role-played cuffing you but mistakenly forgot to script wise cuff you, then courtesy would suggest you role-play being cuffed.

 

44 minutes ago, Tmthn678 said:

- Officers with a very limited understanding of the US Legal system & attempting to deny individuals of their rights to a lawyer and questioning prior to an arrest.

My understanding of the law is not on par with someone who has studied it extensively or is qualified in it, though if you are not being questioned for a crime then you do not have a right to a lawyer. Realistically (and as is the case on this server), people go to court. You have the option upon arrest to plead not guilty / no contest. Doing so can/will result in a court case, and at this point you are able to consult with a lawyer and are innocent until proven guilty.

 

44 minutes ago, Tmthn678 said:

-Officers losing a suspect of a major crime in a chase, and instead arresting anyone who stands in their path as a result of perceived frustration.

I have no idea what this means.

 

44 minutes ago, Tmthn678 said:

- Tasing players for simply walking up and yelling at a criminal scene. 

This does not happen, and if it has happened as black-and-white as this, please post a report.

 

44 minutes ago, Tmthn678 said:

- Refusing blame for car accidents that were obviously a result of their driving and or desynch and accusing other players of it, going so far to arrest or ticket them for it.

This is an IC issue. I know both PD and SD hold their officers/deputies accountable if they have been involved in (and the cause of) a traffic accident. I speak from experience as the previous leader of LSSD's internal affairs team, having discharged characters in the past for causing death by dangerous driving.

 

44 minutes ago, Tmthn678 said:

-Not roleplaying crashes during pursuits, ramming others out of their way. (You can not deny you haven't seen this one)

Again speaking from experience as a leader in both PD and SD, if a faction member drives in a manner that is unrealistic and poor portrayal, this is not ignored. Players are punished/reprimanded internally for this.

 

I am really quite perplexed by this thread. It does not seem to propose a constructive discussion at all, and many of your comments or examples seem incredibly far-fetched. As with any player on the server, if you feel a legal role-player has broken the server rules, report them. They are held to the same standards as other players, and administrators who are in the same faction are not able to handle the report so as to avoid any accusation of bias.

 

If you do have some specific feedback or issues you want to discuss regarding the LSPD, I would be happy to talk further with you. You can send me a forum PM if you wish.

[Jorgensen]

47 minutes ago, Tmthn678 said:

I would beg to differ with you that this issue has seeped into the OOC realm, though I do respect your opinion and appreciate the viewpoint, however, it seems most of SD are now taking these corruption perms to the brim.

My only experience with SANFIRE is having one of their agents make a false 911 call on me (And metagaming my name) because I upset their IC boyfriend....

 

The San Fire member you're on about would be me, you made no attempt to hide that despite after this post saying you wouldn't bash anyone. However, I'm unsure which 911 call you're on about, given, I've always known your name seeing as the Marathon incident came up. You burst into LSNN's HQ and someone screamed your name and said you had a firearm and this was nothing to do with my characters IC boyfriend.. IC is IC, I called the cops on you because of the threat of a firearm. How is that a power trip? I've never interacted with you ON DUTY, only off duty as a civilian.

 

I apologise if I've ever upset you OOC for my IC actions. But, I roleplayed something even a regular civilian would do - Call cops on a threat, whether it be legitimate or not.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Jorgensen

[Power]

I am not sure how the Judiciary is wrapped up in your complaint? Most of your complaints have to do with law enforcement and the mention of a single DA over something that I assume was said as a joke. And a DA can't just Seize your assets a Judge has to sign off, Judges who's actions are scrutinized heavily. Saying its an issue with the entire Judiciary implies Judges are also partaking in this corruption. As for the PD/SD stuff I can't speak to as I am not a member.