Economy debate

[HerpToTheDerp]

17 minutes ago, Zane_Field said:

What your suggesting is removing the economy to suffice those who want to jump in with 1 hour and instantly fill the role of a wealthy billionaire......

 

You people keep saying RPG game as if that is not what your playing???????? Do you not realize that World of Warcraft economy is based on values created by real economists using real life variables that are by far more supportive of what this community keeps trying to fix by introducing something completely irrelevant? Supply and demand, services and reward? Commodities and consumables? All of these are a key factor in wealth and status???????????????????????? Or how about just simple political economics? Non existant.

 

GTA:WORLD is us.. ME, YOU, EVERYONE, entering a world with no real STORY or wealth and creating our own paths... That being said, without an effective progression based system to achieve wealth and status, GTA:WORLD will always be a virtual chat room where you may find a periodic bar fight, or some guy driving around a truck pretending to own a shipping business.

 

I can sit on here and rant... But instead I will provide some reading material that gives insight into REAL economic design within video games. You'll soon find that GTA:World has none.... Before you speak about game economics within an RPG (BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THIS IS, WITH A REAL LIFE GENRE), READ THIS.

 

http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1925649

http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1925649

http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1925649

http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1925649

http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1925649

http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1925649

 

While I did enjoy my time wasted on trying to run a Power Company within a community that has no other real RP business to interact with... It is only clear that the attempted development of this communities "economy" is based on administrative discord chat's that yielded good idea's instead of actual, professional design inspiration... Take RP jobs into account.. was supposed to be HUGE... Sounded cool... But what has it actually done to help this economy? Less pay, irregular player interaction on meaningful levels... Any path to progression? Nope....

 

GL GTAW...

Please, there is no need to use excessive question marks or spam links to get your point across... Trying to force your opinion down someone's throat doesn't make it right or make someone believe that what you said is right. 

 

I never said anything about removing the economy so please do not put words into my mouth. 

 

This is not an RPG. This is a Role Play genre server in a game. That does not make it a by definition RPG. 

 

You can enter the server with a character with no backstory and just plant them on as they go but that's essentially a husk of a character with no life. Give a character a backstory and they can blossom into a rich and alive character that people may relate or even empathize with. The main point is that GTA:World should not feel like a chat room but an experience. This server is some people's lives away from real life where they can live out their dreams. 

 

Again, this is not an RPG. You do take the role of your character and control them. However, RPG games are predominantly grindy and can easily be boring to people who are not in the genre. GTA Online is quite RPG like in some aspects really but not so in others. It's quite hard to define RPG but GTA:World is far from an RPG. As I said earlier, its an experience and not a game. It even says so on the servers main page.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Please understand where me and everyone else is coming from when we say we don't want to have the server turn into an unpleasant, grindy, RPG like experience. That is not fun for everyone and most of the stuff suggested can be roleplayed fine as is. 

 

EDIT: I am not saying we don't need a better economy. I agree we do. I'm just saying that adding RPG elements is a terrible way to do it. I would certainly be driven off the server along with many others. 

Edited February 2, 2019 by HerpToTheDerp

[Alexandra_Forge]

@HerpToTheDerp

 

I am not shoving anything down your throat.. Especially not an opinion.. Now I may be guilty of shoving facts down your throat.. 

 

Definition of RPG:

"A role-playing game (sometimes spelled roleplaying game and abbreviated to RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting or through a process of structured decision-making of character development. Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines."

 

Your objection to such "Goals" or "Objective", in terms of what an RPG consists of (including GTAW)...

 

Is more along the lines of Second Life, which is as I said, a virtual chat room with no real motive other than to prance around and pretend your some biker at a club, or a scantly dressed lady... 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Life#Classification

 

These RPG elements that you are speaking of, are the obtainment, flow, and consumption of commodities and goods that inspire business's and services.. Why would you be against that?.. How can you RP real life without having this? Which is also known as an "ECONOMY"... Your confusing me.. because what your wanting is one in the same, but your just excluding an important key to making the aforementioned realistic..

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Zane_Field

[Alexandra_Forge]

47 minutes ago, HerpToTheDerp said:

 

EDIT: I am not saying we don't need a better economy. I agree we do. I'm just saying that adding RPG elements is a terrible way to do it. I would certainly be driven off the server along with many others. 

Bye Felicia!

 

I guess you have not realize that their is already RPG elements.. their is already resources, components, consumption trigger based rewards such as Pfees...... (This is where I would put a thousand question marks but Ill spare you).

 

The issue is that they don't have any real place or valid effect within the... guess what.... ECONOMY..

 

 

**My head hurts**

Edited February 2, 2019 by Zane_Field

[Guest]

Apart from getting too emotional, I agree everything that @Zane_Field has said here. He is one of those guys who tried to put up a un scripted RP and failed because I am guessing there was almost zero actual interest to it. Just as I have seen with the fishing company and that farm near the prison. All those unique projects are dying faster then the clubs and bars are changing their owners. And that's the second point, why do they change the owners so often? It is because people get this initial euphoria of doing something but soon find out that they are not actually managing anything, apart from paying salaries.

 

I envy PD and FD, because they got all the scripted "items" in the world - that is us. We are their main points of interaction. But we too need that sense of being part of something and the sense that our work matters. We want to interact with the job that we are doing. We want to interact with out own lives. Making living a struggle. Like it is. My best chats and RP situation have from times when I was working. Only thing is that they came from the controversial "grinding" as the simple works like truck driving, warehouse work and boat fishing. 

 

The point is not to remove the scripted items but to make people interact with each other when dealing with those scripted items.

 

With more scripted items the economy could have an actual input of goods that can be transferred left and right - with players actually interacting during every deal. If someone finds this RPG and don't wanna do it with RP and just passes the items and receives the money then this is completely their problem, they are not up to the task or they are clearly not interested of RP'ing.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Guest

[Verazon]

As far as I read @Zane_Field tried to explain what I would have done but @HerpToTheDerp you seem to not understand that this whole thread is about the economy and trying to create it more diverse and effective, one of which could be malnutrition/dehydration that would not FORCE you to buy it but could have negative effects, remember that people who CAN make the script system such as that or any other CAN also adjust them to maybe make it that your characters hunger depletes every 3 or 6 or 9 hours, so you would be able to aimlessly drive around for that length without needing to stop in a 24/7 or a burger joint that COULD be run by a player where, oh no, unfortunately you would have to Role Play to actually get food.

 

Also fyi, this is called a text based role play server because you type, not because you should role play imaginary things by typing /me
(this is in regards of your hidden post, trying to put a point across for whatever reason)

 

The game already has different types of food in it, just a mechanic such as consumption that adds values to your character needs to be added for something as basic and malnutrition/dehydration. Why I was trying to use that point is because it is one of the most controversial yet one of the most basic yet essential to have a basis of an economy because just like in real life, we all purchase it and consume it.

[noel]

This is my POV as a player who hasn't had too much experience on GTAW, but has spent far too long playing LSRP. I haven't read through this thread so apologies if I'm repeating anything:

 

I think one of the reasons the economy is messed up is because the paycheck rate is way too high. 

 

Given that, from what I've seen so far, weapons and drug prices seem to be the same near enough to LSRP, then this means that every 2 hours (2 paychecks) you can afford an ounce of cocaine, which we have been purchasing for $10k. Weapons seem to be around $15-20k also, which again means that by doing nothing but playing the game you can afford this amount of money within a couple of hours.

 

Compare that with LSRP's system. Firstly, their savings system is probably the best way to make money - but most people never reach the desired 20m and therefore never actually have that much money. Secondly, it is very difficult to find a plug or strawman to distribute to you, that is way, way easier on this server because there are too many people with this privilege. Thirdly, and most importantly, you actually have to work to get money to be able to afford guns, drugs and so on. 

 

What ways can you make money in LSRP? Well, you can do a variety of script jobs as well as RP jobs (which pay better). If we're speaking about script jobs, particularly fishing, then you would have to spend an hour to make $15k mindlessly fishing. Script jobs are intentionally mundane, which means that they encourage people to do RP jobs which are a lot better for the server. Barely anyone spends their whole time doing a script job on LSRP, but the option is there for new players.

 

To word it differently, imagine if the hourly paycheck went down to $1000. Firstly, drugs and weapons would feel more difficult to come by and you would actually have to work to get them. This would mean people spend more time selling drugs (and it actually becomes worthwhile), more time working in RP businesses, and more time generally doing things to make themselves money. Right now, there is no need to make money because the server hands you it on a plate, and drug and weapons prices aren't tailored to match this constant stream of money.

 

 

TLDR: 

Put the paychecks down from $5k/hr to about $1k/hr, this way people have to work to get money, thus increasing the number of people doing RP jobs, number of people doing script jobs, number of people selling drugs in small amounts etc. At the moment, money is never an issue because you have immediate access to an income which is better than doing an RP job, script job or selling drugs etc.

Edited February 4, 2019 by noel

[Edwards]

2 hours ago, noel said:

TLDR: 

Put the paychecks down from $5k/hr to about $1k/hr, this way people have to work to get money, thus increasing the number of people doing RP jobs, number of people doing script jobs, number of people selling drugs in small amounts etc. At the moment, money is never an issue because you have immediate access to an income which is better than doing an RP job, script job or selling drugs etc.

Hey, $5k/hr is for the first 40 hours of playtime only, after that it's the regular paycheck of $500 if unemployed or $800 if employed.

[noel]

5 minutes ago, Edwards said:

Hey, $5k/hr is for the first 40 hours of playtime only, after that it's the regular paycheck of $500 if unemployed or $800 if employed.

Someone already corrected me on that. It's still too much IMO. 40 hours x $5k = 200k after 40 hours. People will have no reason to play after having that much money spoonfed to them. You can buy a ridiculous amount of things with that.

 

Even in my >15 hours of playing I've managed to get a shotgun, four ounces of cocaine and a car. That's pretty ridiculous IMO. 

 

 

[midnight creepin]

9 hours ago, noel said:

Someone already corrected me on that. It's still too much IMO. 40 hours x $5k = 200k after 40 hours. People will have no reason to play after having that much money spoonfed to them. You can buy a ridiculous amount of things with that.

 

Even in my >15 hours of playing I've managed to get a shotgun, four ounces of cocaine and a car. That's pretty ridiculous IMO. 

 

 

That’s nothing, 200k just about gets you set up for rp life. This isn’t a grinding server it’s a HEAVY rp server, ie helping new players to set up their character’s life. If you’re trying to grind I suggest you find somewhere else to play

[noel]

6 minutes ago, .East. said:

That’s nothing, 200k just about gets you set up for rp life. This isn’t a grinding server it’s a HEAVY rp server, ie helping new players to set up their character’s life. If you’re trying to grind I suggest you find somewhere else to play

I've already made a topic about this and had my mind changed somewhat. I think people are being pretty unrealistic in saying that everyone is going to have the maturity to RP their actual income like people do in LSRP, but maybe that will come in time.

 

In a way, the more money that's in the server, the more money that people are willing to give away to those who are doing RP jobs that don't provide script items or whatever, so I can sort of see it both ways.