Clarify part of the new Deathmatch rules additions

[eTaylor]

25 minutes ago, Moonsong said:

 

I just want to mention that I very much appreciate your ability to keep the discussion civil whilst still having an opposing view, and I thank you for it.

 

imho It's not a bland generalization, it's fact. Most people are infact decent though yes there may be more nuanced elements in their lives that might be considered bad, or even criminal but in general people do keep to themselves and are respectful of others. But yes as you rightfully said, we do have to maintain a nuanced and balanced perspective to ensure everyone can enjoy the environment we play in. But the question is, can we actually call it balanced if the majority of the population seem incapable of rational thinking and reasonable behavior? 

No problemo!
 

Regarding your point, I can totally see where you're coming. But human behavior just cannot be fully captured by such a broad generalization. There are so many different cultural, social, and economic factors that can influence how people behave, life experiences aren’t uniform either. Maybe in your world people are good as you described, but that’s not universal for everyone.

 

In terms of whether our world is "balanced", I would argue that balance doesn't necessarily translate to everyone always being rational and reasonable. It means that everyone is able to exist and function in their respective plane that coexists with others in a functional world that’s fun for everyone. That means that your good and rational world can coexist with someone else’s dark and irrational world. They might conflict, which is fine - that’s the same conflict that exists in the real world. Naturally there are limits, and rules help us navigate those limits. But you can’t cut out one side because you only see the good in the world, and deny that what is rational for you may be irrational for me (for example). 

[Bolax]

1 hour ago, Moonsong said:

imho It's not a bland generalization, it's fact. Most people are infact decent though yes there may be more nuanced elements in their lives that might be considered bad, or even criminal but in general people do keep to themselves and are respectful of others. But yes as you rightfully said, we do have to maintain a nuanced and balanced perspective to ensure everyone can enjoy the environment we play in. But the question is, can we actually call it balanced if the majority of the population seem incapable of rational thinking and reasonable behavior? 

It is a bland generalization. You're basically using tiktok trends to tell people how street gangs and criminals work.

 

1 hour ago, DLimit said:

The people who conduct their research on gang activity only research the gang members that get caught.

Not true at all.

 

1 hour ago, DLimit said:

You won't get live footage of gang-bangers, in the hood, working with locals in their community to earn their trust and loyalty

That's because such things don't happen and when it is on camera it's set up to make the influencers who make those videos look good. It's all smoke and mirrors and PR work, really. Gangs at their core are criminal organizations who more often than not victimize people in their own communities.

 

1 hour ago, DLimit said:

Neither will you find the ones that simply jump people, off camera, without resorting to homicide. In the majority of cases? It does not result in homicide, and neither do the local sets terrorize people in their neighborhood on the level that is portrayed on this server.

Whether or not the gangs terrorize people in their territories or not isn't really the point, the point is if if some non gang member approached a fully blown gang banger in real life and did and said the things that "civilian" roleplayers do ingame they'd without a doubt be shot at, if not shot straight up. The addition to the DMing rule is being abused by players who think it's funny to, as white suburban characters go around the ghetto and mess around with thugs, knowing that nothing can really be done to them because they're manly lesbians who wear cat ears, can duel wield ak-47's and aren't scared of crowds of gangsters like most people are in real life and will shoot and kill anyone who even lays a finger on them.

 

This literally happened to my faction the other day. A 15 year old character from my faction was kidnapped and shot dead after a pair of these duel wielding lesbians got mad at my character for pickpocketing one of them. Instead of going away and calling the police like any rational person would do in real life, they proceeded to hound the local set in a neighborhood they weren't from for close to an hour, doing burnouts in their street, shouting british slang at us out the window, telling people they'll kill them until they finally kidnapped a child character (who wasn't even involved) and shot her dead. When reported, these players didn't even get a verbal warning, the situation was just shrugged off and voided.

 

The rule desperately needs to be revamped or outright removed because the duel wielding furry lesbians are out of control at the moment.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Bolax

[CowboyYoda22]

1 hour ago, Bolax said:

It is a bland generalization. You're basically using tiktok trends to tell people how street gangs and criminals work.

 

Not true at all.

 

That's because such things don't happen and when it is on camera it's set up to make the influencers who make those videos look good. It's all smoke and mirrors and PR work, really. Gangs at their core are criminal organizations who more often than not victimize people in their own communities.

 

Whether or not the gangs terrorize people in their territories or not isn't really the point, the point is if if some non gang member approached a fully blown gang banger in real life and did and said the things that "civilian" roleplayers do ingame they'd without a doubt be shot at, if not shot straight up. The addition to the DMing rule is being abused by players who think it's funny to, as white suburban characters go around the ghetto and mess around with thugs, knowing that nothing can really be done to them because they're manly lesbians who wear cat ears, can duel wield ak-47's and aren't scared of crowds of gangsters like most people are in real life and will shoot and kill anyone who even lays a finger on them.

 

This literally happened to my faction the other day. A 15 year old character from my faction was kidnapped and shot dead after a pair of these duel wielding lesbians got mad at my character for pickpocketing one of them. Instead of going away and calling the police like any rational person would do in real life, they proceeded to hound the local set in a neighborhood they weren't from for close to an hour, doing burnouts in their street, shouting british slang at us out the window, telling people they'll kill them until they finally kidnapped a child character (who wasn't even involved) and shot her dead. When reported, these players didn't even get a verbal warning, the situation was just shrugged off and voided.

 

The rule desperately needs to be revamped or outright removed because the duel wielding furry lesbians are out of control at the moment.

What part of South Central are you playing in lol? I rarely see this happening if ever.

[thelostart22]

I mean we all agree that hardened gangsters high on crack will shoot you regardless of consequences, those definitely exist and we hear about them a lot IRL. To me there is a problem when those sick individuals who are a very, very small portion of the society are overly represented because it's easier to RP for criminal players, so as a civilian you're always on the edge and facing Death Matching so often it doesn't look like criminality makes any sense anymore.

 

And when a room feels unclean, it encourages people to dirt it even more so you get light RP and stoopid stuff like cat ears vigilante. It's a complex problem that has been going on since years and years on this community.

 

Just my two cents about the last handful of posts.

[Olivia]

I'll give my 2 cents and general view which of course doesn't reflect all of staff 😀

 

It boils down to reasonableness and common sense with player courtesy in mind. I believe the spirit of the rule is to convey the idea that shooting civilians should not be your first instinct. It provides some basic protections for civilians: scared civilians are going to call the police when they see petty crime. It's what civilians do. Them calling the police is not a blank check for murder. Murder should be the absolute last resort when all other options have been fully exhausted. It shouldn't be the first thing that comes to mind.

 

Vigilantes were brought up. A vigilante is not your standard scared civilian. It's someone who is willfully taking it upon themselves to inject themselves in a situation and intervene with the business of criminals. I would examine this with a much higher degree of scrutiny.

 

Like most situations, a violation of this rule would be handled on a case by case basis with both sides being examined.

[Laird Mayhew]

On 5/6/2023 at 4:11 PM, liq said:

The rule itself is fine. Nobody should be killed just for seeing and reporting petty crime. But when you go out of your way to fabricate petty crime or you basically camp hubspots of illegal role-play just to snitch on it, then hide behind an OOC rule when consequences come? (this happens rn.) Then that's the problem, the need to clarify that rule specifically.

And the point of the discussion is to actually avoid a bad Rule 0 precedent made by an admin where players that perpetrate this stuff end up being protected.

This is the core of the problem right here. The purpose of the rule is fine in that it protects everyday law-abiding citizens reporting a crime they happen to see. That's 100% normal. If people are going out of their way to find crime in high-crime areas and report it with the intention to hide behind the rule? That's no good and needs to be discussed. 

 

Also, it takes about 1 minute of your time to go somewhere safe and call 911. At the same time, people need to be more fearful of their lives. Don't call 911 within earshot of the criminal committing the crime or go call it in anonymously from a payphone. Don't be stupid. 

[DLimit]

5 hours ago, Bolax said:

This literally happened to my faction the other day. A 15 year old character from my faction was kidnapped and shot dead after a pair of these duel wielding lesbians got mad at my character for pickpocketing one of them. Instead of going away and calling the police like any rational person would do in real life, they proceeded to hound the local set in a neighborhood they weren't from for close to an hour, doing burnouts in their street, shouting british slang at us out the window, telling people they'll kill them until they finally kidnapped a child character (who wasn't even involved) and shot her dead. When reported, these players didn't even get a verbal warning, the situation was just shrugged off and voided.

 

The rule desperately needs to be revamped or outright removed because the duel wielding furry lesbians are out of control at the moment.

Just report them. If you do the opposite, and decide to rule-break, as-well, then they'll report you.

This rule was implemented because there's been dozens of cases of people shooting at someone for calling 911 after something as petty as stealing candy, usually by trolls who simply want to provoke to bait people into shit-tier R.P... Trolls exist on both sides, so both sides should report each other.

[DLimit]

5 hours ago, Bolax said:

That's because such things don't happen and when it is on camera it's set up to make the influencers who make those videos look good. It's all smoke and mirrors and PR work, really. Gangs at their core are criminal organizations who more often than not victimize people in their own communities.

I was raised in Bedstuy, Brooklyn, in gang-infested neighborhoods back when the murder rate was higher than it currently is. I'm now almost 32. It was very rarely like that, and that was with less cameras and technology surveiling these regions. People don't outright resort to murder. They resort to jumping, robbing, tagging, threats etc... as murder is a last resort. Only a minority of those cases include outright murder, but on this server, it's an everyday thing.

The shit I see by "influencers" is actually worst than what I see in real life, on average. Everything's over-exaggerated on the internet. In fact, some of these gang videos, posted by influencers, were criticized by locals, claiming that it "isn't as bad as it use to be". The internet and media over-exaggerates everything for views and shock-value, not actual reality.

I've kicked it with gang-bangers, most my life. They victimized nobody on their hood. Usually, they were on good terms with the locals as locals were either customers, required protection, or gathered intel on police activities and outsiders entering territory. The only time somebody ever became a victim was when they committed violations in their own territory. I.E. Snitching, scamming, selling without permission, bullying a respected member of that community etc... and that usually resulted in threats, taxes, and beat-downs.

In my current neighborhood, the Hells Angels and Crips co-exist with one another and work with their community to keep their operations flowing. The local Crips defended an Indian woman as some pedophile touched their child at a coffee shop... they recorded him, barred him from the hood for 2 months, while claiming that if he trespassed on to the hood, then he'd get jumped or murdered. Didn't become outright murder. Usually never does.

Back to my original point: Most people base their understanding of gangs from the media. Whether the news, Tik Tok, FBI articles etc... you'll only witness what the media tells you, not the reality of an average day life of a gang-banger. The media over-exaggerates everything.

Edited May 10, 2023 by DLimit

[lostlk]

6 hours ago, Bolax said:

because they're manly lesbians who wear cat ears, can duel wield ak-47's and aren't scared of crowds of gangsters like most people are in real life and will shoot and kill anyone who even lays a finger on them.

Are these cat eared lesbians in the room with us now?

 

In all seriousness this is the fourth time you’ve mentioned such characters, and I haven’t seen one of them in a long while, and I RP in both civilian and illegal sides of the server. Your point doesn’t make any more sense the more you strawman, and your only going to cause the illegal/legal divide in this community we’ve tried to hard to fix to grow further.

 

The DM rule is cut and dry due to limitations of the server often being abused, your not allowed to murder a random civilian on the street for calling 911 over a petty crime. Let’s not forget, this is PETTY CRIME. Petty crime is things that end in a fine.

 

Imagine if every time someone reported an illegally parked car to get towed got shot? Imagine if everyone who calls someone in for public intoxication got shot?

 

If you think this kind of shit happens IRL, I’m curious about what kind of world your living in. At most calling in a petty crime will end with a shouting match.

[eTaylor]

1 minute ago, lostlk said:

At most calling in a petty crime will end with a shouting match.

I wish an admin would share 911 call logs showing the idiot pseudo-vigilante calls of morons described in this thread