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Abolish or reform Rule 0.


stain

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-1, anyone who's ran a community can tell you it's next to impossible to properly make rules for every situation. Admin discretion or a "catch all" rule is the best way to handle situations like this, where someone is just skirting a penalty.

Our current punishment system is already too lax for a serious RP community IMO, since the worst penalty I see for most situations is an ajail, which is hardly a punishment. Or a 1-3 day ban if the person is a repeat offender. We also have a admin abuse reporting system, so it's not as if the admins get to do whatever they want. If your punished unfairly, the worst you get is a 60 minute youtube break, and you can always put up a report on the admin.

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8 minutes ago, lostlk said:

-1, anyone who's ran a community can tell you it's next to impossible to properly make rules for every situation. Admin discretion or a "catch all" rule is the best way to handle situations like this, where someone is just skirting a penalty.

Our current punishment system is already too lax for a serious RP community IMO, since the worst penalty I see for most situations is an ajail, which is hardly a punishment. Or a 1-3 day ban if the person is a repeat offender. We also have a admin abuse reporting system, so it's not as if the admins get to do whatever they want. If your punished unfairly, the worst you get is a 60 minute youtube break, and you can always put up a report on the admin.

I don't think you comprehend how much power Rule 0 gives any admin of any level.

Let's say you have a clean record, genuinely make a mistake and acknowledge that mistake. If let's say the admin at hand is having a stressful day IRL or just really doesn't comprehend the situation and so forth can entirely give you a 120 minute ajail for not only your first administrative punishment but at the same time take 2 hours away from you being able to further your character's development and/or just really demotivate you to even play a server.

You say "we also have an admin abuse reporting system" I don't think YOU have ever staff reported somebody on this server, you thought an actual report took long to get solved and situated? Look at MONTHS of that shit sitting in DMs, probably without all of the mentioned staff members to look at it. Rule 0 is a joke as is, you give people that don't comprehend basic understanding of life and have biased admins (don't tell me there isn't any because there is, don't @ me to make a staff report either with what I just said) that just are trying to meet their quota. Now don't get me wrong, admins do have to enforce and deal with a lot of shit. For 700+ players daily on the server, the server is MASSIVELY under staffed as per admins. There's 20+ admins in game daily and it still takes 1+ hour(s) for simple reports of DM and other rule breaks to be answered. Which most of the time, have to turn into forum reports cause the other side has logged off anymore.

Onto my actual response for the thread:

Rule 0 should be an unwritten rule, if a player is trying to bend a rule but is still within the rule; give them a warning, don't leave the action of punishment for the admin entirely within their hands. I've seen some pretty dumb ajail reasonings, the overly complicated long reasonings for example a good one vs a bad one "DM, player killed another for calling them "gay" " (good) vs "Player shot another player over getting called gay and then stood over their body saying "dont call me gay" " (bad) over explaining a situation for the entire server to see is already embarrassing enough.

Rule 0 needs to get gone, putting defined lines of "hey staff team, this is how these rules are to be monitored, if somebody bends them but doesn't break them get a 2nd, 3rd opinion from admins in different departments and not just in your department IE IFM, PM, RPQM, and so on." as of right now the rule literally gives admins the power to give really harsh punishments because of a mishap.

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4 minutes ago, Smurf said:

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I do comprehend how much power that rule gives to the admins, and again, my point stands. Every server needs a catch all rule, it's simple as. I don't understand the sudden complaints about this rule, it's common sense and quite literally every other roleplay community has some variant of this rule in place. If you can find me a single, still active RP community that DOESNT have a rule like this, I'd be shocked.

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12 minutes ago, lostlk said:

 

 

I do comprehend how much power that rule gives to the admins, and again, my point stands. Every server needs a catch all rule, it's simple as. I don't understand the sudden complaints about this rule, it's common sense and quite literally every other roleplay community has some variant of this rule in place. If you can find me a single, still active RP community that DOESNT have a rule like this, I'd be shocked.

 

I concur. There are so many variables when it comes to this kind of online game and community. If they made a rule for literally EVERYTHING people wouldn't read through them. Roleplaying logically and realistically will lead to this rule not being used, in my opinion. Admins need some give and take and there are things that just cannot always be accounted for.

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Nobody is suggesting a rule be made for every situation and nobody is saying admins shouldn't have some form of discretion when dealing with situations. Our issue is that this rule is used in large part by admins exerting their opinion on a situation which shouldn't happen. Staff reports take half a year to complete and when they are done usually just end up with a slap on the wrist if you're lucky unless the admin fucked up very badly. 
I shouldn't get ajailed for doing something that somebody else got away with solely because the admin I got THINKS what I did is unrealistic.

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1 minute ago, stain said:

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So what are you asking for? By removing rule 0, our rules would need to be constantly updated to cover every possible case. 

I'm not here to say Admins are perfect, I got my issues with the administrative team, but this entire complaint seems more focused at the fact someone got punished for something through rule 0 and is angry about it. Maybe make a suggestion to improve the staff reporting system? As it seems like that is your main complaint.

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We had a project of making the ability to have specific rulings for cases not covered by rules, and have these rulings available publicly for reference, and thus it would also allow us to kinda remove rule 0. So why not! I'll discuss with management if that's something we can discuss soon.

Edited by Nervous
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3 minutes ago, Nervous said:

We had a project of making the ability to have specific rulings for cases not covered by rules, and have these rulings available publicly for reference, and thus it would also allow us to kinda remove rule 0. So why not! I'll discuss with management if that's something we can discuss soon.

This is what I was looking for but couldn't formulate into words, thank you.

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22 minutes ago, Nervous said:

We had a project of making the ability to have specific rulings for cases not covered by rules, and have these rulings available publicly for reference, and thus it would also allow us to kinda remove rule 0. So why not! I'll discuss with management if that's something we can discuss soon.

thank you big dog

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30 minutes ago, Nervous said:

We had a project of making the ability to have specific rulings for cases not covered by rules, and have these rulings available publicly for reference, and thus it would also allow us to kinda remove rule 0. So why not! I'll discuss with management if that's something we can discuss soon.

thanks P dog, this rule has been long overdue to get gone. Thanks again!

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