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SAPR should change to SAHP. Here are some reasons why.


TommyX

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44 minutes ago, Poetic said:

Specializations, or divisions we only offer are,

  • Marine
  • Canine
  • Air
  • IA
  • PR

 

That's all we offer... we have off road vehicle and rifle qualification stuff. But we don't offer anything different, only less. We don't offer entirely unique experiences separate from PD or SD. We function scriptly, and allocate just as similar with the only caveat being in the county. While we're still "niche" In some sense, it's hard to see anymore truthfully though.

 

But we as a faction don't generally "offer" Any more than PD or SD does at this time.

Then SAPR has either significantly deteriorated since I was last in it, or it’s once creative and dedicated members has been replaced with drones that treat it as if it’s just another PD/SD faction. I can’t speak for IA but Marine, K9, and Air all had incredibly dedicated members who really carried their team. All which enjoyed a unique degree of freedom and roleplay opportunities in a friendly roleplay first environment. PR was the backbone of establishing amazing events across the state for rangers and the general playerbase alike. You used to be able to take anyone with you on mountainbike shenanigans that almost always end in something fun. Rip up tracks on dirt bikes and outlaws, have an endless playground with near endless resources to roleplay to your hearts desire and an entire fleet to match. You could dedicate your time to wildlife preservation, tour people along the parks, socialize with the bizarre, and even hunt down Bigfoot. All while providing nothing but dedicated and engaging roleplay to anyone you meet along your self dictated excursions into the wild. You gave shape to your own role and function, deepening your specialty in whatever way you roleplay it. That doesn’t exist in PD, and it doesn’t exist in SD.
 

If you’re telling me all that is gone, and people have left the creative potential to instead sit in a Scout all day and commit to basic law enforcement along the likes of PD/SD patrol divisions, it has lost every grain of admiration I had for it. It would disappoint me to learn that all that it was is gone, and that it has lost touch which its original concept. It leaves me to wonder if that means that all the people that once spearheaded what made it unique have left, and that without nobody to proactively guard it have left it to the robocops to turn it into just another blue line. That would, sadly, prove every concern I’ve raised internally about certain elements right. It would also mean that nothing was done with that concern. 

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23 minutes ago, eTaylor said:

Then SAPR has either significantly deteriorated since I was last in it, or it’s once creative and dedicated members has been replaced with drones that treat it as if it’s just another PD/SD faction. I can’t speak for IA but Marine, K9, and Air all had incredibly dedicated members who really carried their team. All which enjoyed a unique degree of freedom and roleplay opportunities in a friendly roleplay first environment. PR was the backbone of establishing amazing events across the state for rangers and the general playerbase alike. You used to be able to take anyone with you on mountainbike shenanigans that almost always end in something fun. Rip up tracks on dirt bikes and outlaws, have an endless playground with near endless resources to roleplay to your hearts desire and an entire fleet to match. You could dedicate your time to wildlife preservation, tour people along the parks, socialize with the bizarre, and even hunt down Bigfoot. All while providing nothing but dedicated and engaging roleplay to anyone you meet along your self dictated excursions into the wild. You gave shape to your own role and function, deepening your specialty in whatever way you roleplay it. That doesn’t exist in PD, and it doesn’t exist in SD.
 

If you’re telling me all that is gone, and people have left the creative potential to instead sit in a Scout all day and commit to basic law enforcement along the likes of PD/SD patrol divisions, it has lost every grain of admiration I had for it. It would disappoint me to learn that all that it was is gone, and that it has lost touch which its original concept. It leaves me to wonder if that means that all the people that once spearheaded what made it unique have left, and that without nobody to proactively guard it have left it to the robocops to turn it into just another blue line. That would, sadly, prove every concern I’ve raised internally about certain elements right. It would also mean that nothing was done with that concern. 

 

 

SAPR has gone through four leadership changes/adjustments in the past year. Our entire faction was also upturned and lost a hot majority of every single player who was in the faction both before and after "Liberty City", which was also a major downhill for the faction itself. 

 

IN terms of uniqueness that we can offer? And provide? This is heavily dependent on both initiative and interest of players both inside and outside of the faction. We have sat with 1-2 members continuously since October. Only recently this year, coming into February have we managed to TRY and lightly successfully have we brought numbers back to the faction. 

 

I'm not faction leadership, but I've been in the faction for quite a while and I will say--- We can't "force" People to do what they do not want to do. Are they doing anything wrong? No. Could these members have a different mindset and separate initiative to boost and motivate things? Yes.


But it comes down to we can't force people to. People fail to understand the "niche" of county. County roleplay struggles across every single GTA:W from RU, FR to us. However, when the faction's people have tried, and there's no reciprocation or rubberband towards that? All motivation is lost. And when motivation is lost by a large vast majority of your faction, what do you do?

Remove people?

Removing people isn't an option nor solution to anything either.

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47 minutes ago, eTaylor said:

----

 

Well said, but another main reason why a lot of the original members left is simply because they got sick and tired of the extremely unfair restrictions imposed on the faction. Ever since the faction started, this community has been head hunting & witch hunting for reasons to limit them as much as humanly possible, and as evidenced by comments in this thread, it's clear that some members of this community still lack the ability to think like grown adults & accept the fact that SAPR was unique & needed.

 

Look at HAPA for example, it was completely shut down due to fishing license issues, which is fine, but it took nearly a year for it to be re-written, because everyone that actually cared about that type of RP got tired of being restricted & left.

 

It's so easy for people to put the blame on SAPR, when the blame really should go towards certain people in administrative positions that dislike SAPR & utilize their administrative powers to impose ridiculous & overkill restrictions on it. 

 

SAPR used to be great, and it is still great, but it's far too late for it to be what it used to be, and that fault lies entirely on the community & the administrators that imposed the restrictions that killed the enjoyment to begin with.

 

As @Poeticsaid above, when all you get is shit on 24/7 for simply doing your jobs & enjoying the RP you have, motivation quickly diminishes. It happened to me, I used to be on GTAW daily, enjoying every second of my RP with SAPR, until we got restriction after restriction after restriction, constant belittling & harassment by the community, and all of our complaints essentially thrown in the trash, all because certain members of power disliked the faction & all their friends joined in on the anti SAPR bandwagon, and all that stemmed into a lot of members leaving.

 

SAPR has been trying on a daily basis to get the community to open their eyes and see the benefits of having SAPR, but it's easier for people to stay on the anti SAPR bandwagon like toddlers instead of actually admit when they're wrong.

 

It's hard to be motivated when you get treated like garbage by everyone for no reason. :shrug:

 

The majority of members left because every time they tried to provide unique RP, they got shut down. All the people with amazing ideas for the faction were essentially told no, all because certain people in LFM & high positions in other factions & the community disliked SAPR. 

 

Hell, the restrictions & dislike for SAPR were so petty that SAPR was denied a namechange from SAPR to "San Andreas State Parks" to match their IRL counterpart (California State Parks) because "People would mistake the SASP to mean State Police". Yeah, so what? SAPR ARE State Police Officers. We weren't even allowed to say "State Parks" in Departmental radios or general conversation, it was that petty. Even when the cruisers literally say "San Andreas State Parks" on the side.

 

For the last year or so I've been keeping all this shit bottled up because I was told I'd receive administrative punishment for speaking my mind about the unfair treatment towards SAPR by LFM & the community in general. I actually got forcefully demoted due to trying to dispute certain restrictions. But now I don't play GTAW anymore, my RP days are over, so I'm not staying silent about these issues anymore, they can ban me for all I care, enough is enough. 

Edited by PeopleKind
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As for the comments saying "SAPR just pulls people over because they're bored, baaaah reee"

 

Give me a damn break, y'all acting as if the LSPD & LSSD don't do the exact same thing? Thats what police do, both IG and IRL. They're POLICE. If you break the traffic laws, they're going to pull you over, regardless if you're in a park or not. Do you think the CSP IRL are going to ignore you going 100MPH in a 60MPH zone if it's outside of a park? News flash, they arent. Know why? because they're POLICE. With STATE WIDE jurisdiction.

 

Sometimes police officers pull people over for petty reasons or because they're bored. LSPD does it, LSSD does it, SAPR does it, and guess what? IRL police do it all the damn time as well, so get off the topic of SAPR & traffic stops, thanks. 

Edited by PeopleKind
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5 hours ago, Mecovy said:

Does the SD department have a traffic unit like PD does? If so, there u go, highway patrol. If SAPR is split, then I see that as being the ultimate solution. Give people a division in an LEO agency to do their highway duties and solely focus on that (without needed to create new material, "new" faction, organize how that'd interact with others etc. When this issue shows its not uniform. 

 

I hope FM see this and see that niche factions need dev updates. nothing bad about the current focuses, just don't forget the lil guys, they need cool new stuff too once in a while to help bolster their niche concept. 

Having been in both, LSSD Traffic operates completetly differently from LSPD Traffic. This suggestion wouldn't work out without more changes (which are unlikely to happen) to the division

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1 hour ago, eTaylor said:

PR was the backbone of establishing amazing events across the state for rangers and the general playerbase alike

I'm curious as to what's the current state of SAPR's PR team, because I haven't really seen any events happening, and when I attempted to organise events with SAPR I had radio silence for weeks

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25 minutes ago, Mitch said:

I'm curious as to what's the current state of SAPR's PR team, because I haven't really seen any events happening, and when I attempted to organise events with SAPR I had radio silence for weeks

It's very barebones at the moment but we're working on it.. we only really have two-three people in PR.. we used to have alot more but alot of people left due to the issues mentioned above.

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What's funny is the word I keep seeing mentioned is "restrictions"

 

Maybe we could get to the base root of the problem here and take a step back, and look at the big picture. If you look up the terms restrictions,  OOC restrictions, limitations, roleplay management, in a search on this forum, you're SLAMMED with results. That is the underlying issue.

 

I get it, I really do. I've been roleplaying since 2003. Longer than some of the playerbase here has been alive. Call me a boomer, call me what you will.

 

Freedom. An open-world. Opportunity. That is what we are HERE for. However, restrictions and limitations CRUSH a roleplayers hope's and dreams, and ultimately cause them to give up, and leave a server/community entirely.

 

I really love GTAW. I love the vibe and the community, but with this thread, is it time we take a step back and look at our restrictions, limitations, and expectations of the community as a whole? I understand that if we had a free-for-all, we'd end up with 2013-2014 era NGRP world of chaos, with a great script (Which World most certainly HAS), but absolute an utter chaos.

 

What I'm preaching is we take a step back, look at our RP roots of 2006 SAMP when we had nothing but /me and opportunity and freedom to be who we wanted to be. We can find a balance between these restrictions, realistic RP, and fun, but I feel sometimes, the server has become far too restrictive of what people do, and what people can do, and what people want to do, and this thread is a culmination in that.

 

I implore the server management, and administration as a whole, let's take a step back, and see where we came from, and where we are now, and the outcries of the community. Because sometimes, to look forward, you have to look back at where you came from.

 

That's my soap box for now, I hope you all understand what I'm getting at. It's by no means an attack on the server as a whole.

Edited by Thurston Howl
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5 hours ago, PeopleKind said:

Give me a damn break, y'all acting as if the LSPD & LSSD don't do the exact same thing? Thats what police do, both IG and IRL. They're POLICE. If you break the traffic laws, they're going to pull you over, regardless if you're in a park or not. Do you think the CSP IRL are going to ignore you going 100MPH in a 60MPH zone if it's outside of a park? News flash, they arent. Know why? because they're POLICE. With STATE WIDE jurisdiction.

 

I don't necessarily believe that LSPD and LSSD traffic is the same thing. They have differing focuses and mentalities but they are police, meanwhile, SAPR are /Park Rangers/ bound by an agreement with SD in how they are allowed to police the county by law thats enforced IC by the sheriff and director of the parks. The issue is not necessarily they do it, but more so, they are doing things the name isn't fitting for

 

Highway Patrol OR add mechanics-- gameplay to the county.

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