khadijeh. Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 CENSUS RESULTS & INFORMATION ILLEGAL FACTION MANAGEMENT Beginning of census: January 25 2023 End of census: February 01 2023 In January of 2023, Illegal Faction Management put out a census to start the year with feedback about everything going on from a player's perspective. We did multiple of these in 2021 in which they were successful for feedback and hearing straight from players what they wanted on the server. Illegal Faction Management is far from perfect and there are many members of the community who have extensive knowledge that are not within the staff team in which can and have provided their opinions and takes on issues. This thread will be split into 3 parts. I have tried to keep this as concise and accurate to the information we were given. This thread is an informative reference. PART 1 — THE STATISTICAL RESULTS Please open the spoiler below for charts of the multiple choice questions that we received. Spoiler PART 2 — THE WRITTEN RESULTS In total, out of 196 submissions, 178 had a written response for a total of 32,480 words. While the importance of this is absolutely 0 in regards to the census' goal, it's to help understand that while all responses were read, we may not have specified it within this section due to similarities to others, duplications, or just not fit for the thread. Some of these will include notes from IFM where able to, some of them will be covered in part 3. Text from IFM will be in green, the majority will be covered in part 3. Direct quotes will be in quotation marks, if there isn't quotation marks it means I've combined multiple into a summary. This will include suggestions and general comments, feel free to discuss these suggestions under this thread. In regards to the "biggest" problem in the Illegal scene: [Feedback] — Escalation This came up within many of the responses we received, each flagging different problems of escalation that exist across the server within all of the scenes. From gang escalation, to random player escalation, to escalation on traffic stops with law enforcement. We are entirely in agreement that currently, people jump to guns way too quickly and it's unfortunate trend that exists. This is arguably the biggest problem within the scene from our perspective as well. We will be looking at making the rules clearer in an attempt to prevent randoms outside of factions from initiating large scale scenarios, but this does ultimately also come down to the faction members and leaders themselves trying to encourage conflicts that prioritize roleplay over OOC scoreboards. This is why in some cases, factions have asked IFM to "cut interactions" due to the conflict turning more OOC and not providing roleplay to the players involved. We will be looking at these amendments and accepting feedback or ideas for what players believe could help this problem be resolved. [Feedback] — "There is no easy way to get in. No proper guides to get into illegal rp." There are a lot of player made guides, as well as usually if you're roleplaying in an area you'll be introduced to illegal factions. You do need to still have a basic understanding of what concept you're attempting to get into, even if it's just as what kind of local character you would roleplay in the area. It's very common for leadership / long term members of the faction to then let you know they have a Discord in case you're interested in getting deeper into the faction. A lot of it is just being in game and letting them get to know you. [Feedback] — "Micro managed too hard, too long for a breakin request, need more IFM members (a lot of people are inactive), IFM aren't strict enough with factions or leaders when their faction members are repeatedly being punished for the same thing." We have recently added 4 more people to our roster and will be training them up - we agree IFM is way too understaffed for the amount of work that comes through and the amount of support the illegal community needs. [Feedback] — "There is too much mitigating on this concept or that concept not being allowed. Understandably I get why players aren't allowed to RP certain concepts (thankfully the LCNs have come to an end) but I'm more on about Vagos MC not being allowed, I get why because of the last leadership, but I think allowing X group of experienced members be able to roleplay the concept would be a great idea and addition. But back onto the topic of question, the biggest problem within the illegal roleplay scene it can't really be down to just ONE problem, it's a lot of issues. But the popular ones are the micromanaging, it's been said countless of times, nobody wants to do a lot of forum work to just get declined after they spent X amount of time writing something for a scheme/faction/so on forth. Another one being gun flow, it's been stated countless of times. Either people don't have the resources to achieve getting them and when they do, it's far few in between so that resorts to people looting them to prevent them losing a hefty expense loss because it might not be for awhile where they don't have another firearm while being in an illegal faction." This was submitted a few times but worded in various ways. In regards to Vagos MC, this is not something we want to gatekeep or prevent people from roleplaying. We previously had 2 support clubs that would operate under Vagos MC that existed without Vagos MC. If we then gave this concept to players, they'd be forced to submit under them without having any idea who they are and quite literally spawned in. There is now only Green Machine MC, in the event that there was a solid roster and Green Machine MC was fine with them coming in as Vagos MC, we would consider it. We are trying to be fair to the existing factions who are established, not gatekeep a concept. In addition to the other concepts, we are looking at revising our rules for how we accept factions and for what we do not. [Feedback] — "Losing touch of reality. People often don't take criticism from the ones with life experience. Aka uninformed people being stubborn and refuse to improve because they do not accept others their input and rather follow what their own group proceeds to do." [Feedback] — "Wanting to be part of illegal roleplay but without being a faction. Dealing narcotics and guns is hard to do it when you’re without a faction. Factions usually tend to sell their weapons and their drugs to other factions in exhange of something else that can be weapons or drugs. The RP is limited when it comes to roleplaying without a faction and want to make it big on your own." This is the case we've noticed in some factions, but not all. We reach out to the factions that we notice doing this, and in the event you have a concern with evidence that it is occurring, you can always submit a brief faction report showing what you have so it can be looked into. [Feedback] — "They need more restrictions in robbing people in broad daylight and on busy locations. There is no effort in robbing somebody, they just do it. They should follow that person, stalk him/her and rob him/her only when a good opportunity shows not just get out of a car and point gun at people." [Feedback] — "The lack of long term consequences for most if not all criminal acts. Namely throw-away characters who share very little concern for the outcome of their acts, characters who are not afraid to trade fire with the police so they can be PK'd and avoid jail time, and the overall "safety" that the regular illegal character enjoy, safe for some very extreme exceptions." [Feedback] — "The biggest problem is the fact that it seems to me suppliers who get guns and drugs seem to horde or stick to themselves.. I have been in the illegal community for a long time, and used to have connections in quite a few different groups, and finding specific drugs or guns had never been this difficult. Since the summer, it has seemed that people are hording, keeping to their ooc friends/connections (it seems like) and/or there isn't enough of the stuff going around. The new drug system is broken as well with the addiction stuff, and no way to cut or test drugs is a huge downside in my opinion." [Feedback] — "The quantity of guns just laying around without them disappearing or "expiring". Imo, shitty guns should flood the market, less automatics, less big guns, and less ammo, then people will be warry with how and when they'll use their gun." We have been discussing this within the team - and may look at opening a discussion for some form of expiry or degradation system for drugs and firearms. [Feedback] — "Factions jumping at the opportunity to get into other Factions wars/conflicts, merc's feel less like they're actually roleplayed as hired gun men and more so OOC friends that are fighting in someone else's war. Half the time it doesn't even make sense as to why the merc's are actually helping, everyone uses the excuse of getting paid but it never actually happens and even if it does, it's wildly bad portrayal to get involved in a war over a small amount of money." [Feedback] — "The fact there's lots of restrictions on players who may have had a tainted past with a record, and such. Another issue is the restrictions, I'm a major cartel rper for example but the main reason I haven't been able to stay on LS long with illegal RP is the fact it's banned" This ties into the earlier answer, we are looking at revising what rules we have in place regarding forbidden concepts. [Feedback] — "The lack of opportunity in /breakin and robbery /reports, these are a big part of low-end crime and it's extremely important for a lot of characters - yet it's a mission to get a request reviewed. Overall, I think that most things do work well though - I think the gun and drug economy is good, I do think there should be variation in drug labs. For example the ability for everybody to cut cocaine and cook pure cocaine into crack. Making crack cocaine shouldn't be a scheme, it should be publicly available - as it is in real life." [Feedback] — "Too much admin favoritism and involvement/interference and not enough freedom. I feel as though there's multiple admins who cater to the factions they roleplay in and it's unfair to other factions that they're not treating equal - i.e. being approved for things faster, not being held to the same standards as someone outside of the admin's faction, or flat out being denied from opening a group/faction due to preconceived notions/rumors they've heard/ooc feelings. And involvement/interference wise, there's too many situations where I've seen admins swoop in and rule a situation in favor of a legal roleplayer. I understand it's upsetting to be on the losing end of some situations, but sometimes you just have to accept it and learn to cope with it - babying legal players that are mad over being involved in an illegal situation is not teaching them anything other than "if I cry about this, I get my way". We do see a lot of bias or favoritism allegations thrown around, however it is something that we at the upper management of IFM do not want to see happening. It's a real shame that there are genuine situations were this occurs but whenever we are made aware of it and given proof of it occurring, it is handled. [Feedback] — "Nothing to do. Theres no economy so crime for hard cash is purely rp value. There are no events for illegal factions, no side activities. Everything comes from pure roleplay, which leads to boredom from time to time" Lucky., the most recently promoted Senior Illegal Faction Member, will be attempting to get these events going and we will try and host discussions about what the community would want to see. [Feedback] — "How much of a paperwork pain it is to start up a scheme to get your feet off the ground, it would be nice if the process was streamlined on the UCP and not the forums." We do have an open request with web development about getting it onto the UCP. "From my perspective, I believe is the portrayal of some organizations. Especially some of the MCs. I am not talking about acting as their IRL counterpart, I am just talking about the roleplay quality portrayal. Most MCs are sticking to the same hostile behavior to the outside world and treating prospects like are not a living being. Which in my opinion is not really "roleplay". If you'd be treated the same way, in real life I do not think you'd want to stick around those people for too long. Also, I believe sometimes there might be too many faction wars and shootouts for very thin reasons like: "In real life, my faction hates yours"...which again, I think it's counterproductive for the roleplay community. I think, once a faction gets to that point of wanting to prove they are better and expand their territory, that's where a faction should be stopped." [Feedback] — "Too many low quality factions with bad protrayal, just watching a faction thread for 2-5mins lets you know they are very bad and it's very questionable how they are not getting shutdown or striked. This is mainly looked at organized crime due to my interests." [Feedback] — "The biggest problem I noticed with the illegal scene, is the trend that is provided by players to hate on certain faction concepts just due to who they are or how they are potraying themselfs, I feel like we should all voice our oppinion nicely and provide actually proper constructive cristism and If you can't do that then keep your opinion to yourself, instead of bashing people, we should help them enhance there roleplay and guide them to be better." [Feedback] — "Biggest problem from the community side of things is the OOC scene is extremely toxic. From an IFM perspective, the only complaint would be that sometimes it can take a while to get a response on schemes etc, although this is something that there's been a clear improvement on." In regards to what Illegal Faction Management could be doing more to support the community: [Suggestion] — "Make it easier for people to get into illegal rp, maybe expand illegal rp to legit factions such as corporations embezzling money, government contract fraud etc." This could all be done through a scheme if there was people dedicated to doing it, you don't necessarily need to be in an illegal faction to run an illegal scheme. [Suggestion] — Be stricter on (blank). "Cull the troublemakers without an inch of mercy. They're the reason the illegal community has such a bad reputation. If someone is found to be committing crime in excess, or failing to uphold a high standard, make them abundantly clear that they can improve, or be removed." "Making murder a last resort by introducing stricter rules" "Clamper down on OOC Toxicity. Start temporary / perma banning people for egregious offenses." "Chow down on these factions, make everything more strict and give DM factions two strikes and they're out. Apply this rule only when there are reports of said faction poor escalating, if a member of a faction kills someone of another faction; or it involves factions period, and member of said faction gets punished for it then that would lead to the two strike rule getting activated for that faction.. being put on a strict probation to be let off of it." "Enforce engagement rules more forcefully." "Be strikter to rulebreakers within a faction. People just smile over their punishment they get (when they get)." "Stricter enforcement of rules." "I believe that there's a bunch of malicious troll roleplayer out there that rather deserve to be banned compared to a few great roleplayers that unfortunately somehow got banned while they're actually decent people and always willing to learn newcomes etc. I think it wouldn't hurt if we are all a bit more reasonable here when it comes to people that know their way around crim factions and how things go IRL. I'd like to see IFM giving those a chance again." "Lack of knowledge in certain concept that should be fixed with hiring more people on board that can cover those areas. Secondly official factions should be made stricter." "Actually crack down on cases of rule breaks, and portrayal issues" "Be stricter on toxicity" [Suggestion] — "Firstly, they have to reason with people. They have to understand that they're actually here to help. Communicate with as much people as possible. Hear everybody out, but half of peoples dm's are ignored. IFM - you need to protect your illegal rpers when it comes to reports and other concerns, if there's a genuine rulebreak then fine." [Suggestion] — "Approval for schemes that require creativity and planning outside of scripts - collecting scrap metal, stealing from postal packages, container robberies, etc." This could all be done through a scheme already, we accept these. [Suggestion] — "IFM's pretty cool right now, you guys do a good job to keep people involved, informed and generally are super approachable & transparent with things. Naturally, denial responses to supplier applications and more of that would be great if it were to be." [Suggestion] — "Be open to ideas that don't fit into the specific structures/processes that exist right now, but that would greatly benefit illegal roleplayers. For example, if I have an idea for a scheme but I don't necessarily want to receive the items every month, be open to approving a scheme that is bi-monthly or just when the requester submits a request. Things shouldn't be shot down simply because they don't fit into a very specific box." Every scheme is looked at as an individual scheme, that's why sometimes it can take some time to look over everything. There are of course schemes that we would need to research as well and ensure that everything is realistic. If your scheme is denied because it doesn't fit into a very specific box, you just have to send me a forum PM and I'll touch base with you. [Suggestion] — "IFM's transparency is very vague, now I'm not talking about you guys go and show us all the nooks and crannies of what's going on behind the scenes but like 60% transparency instead of just brick wall that occasionally has a crack to be shown some stuff. IFM could start allowing some trust in some senior support staff helping out with IFM related stuff (I'm not talking about all of them but the ones that're interested in joining IFM) with that being said it doesn't mean give them access to everything; but to allow them to help out with IFM related stuff; IE schemes ranging from whatever it may be. This also reaches to the point of not hard locking IFM to just admin only, just have the senior support that wants to join IFM on like certain things until they get past their TA phase and go through the process of being inducted into IFM. It'd help the illegal community a lot by not having to wait on some staff members to reply to a scheme or whatever it may be." — "With a limited amount of members in IFM, it's hard to say what they can do better without the solution being to add more members to the team. The biggest issue for me, personally, is the waiting time for scheme responses etc. but again, that's down to a massive workload versus a small team." — "Always more transparency and communication, taking opinions into consideration and not just opinions of certain individuals." I can agree, I definitely fell out of the habit of trying to keep regular updates on the noticeboard about what was going on and being as transparent as we could regarding things that don't need to be kept hush hush. This is something I'll try and get back on top of, we're aiming to be regularly updating the noticeboard. As for the senior support in IFM, we've added this as well and recently added 4 new members to the team. [Suggestion] — "Create monthly reports on factions by faction leaders, how they've advanced in a role play sense. Thus allowing IFM to monitor the development of Unofficial Factions. This could be disregarded for established factions." There is too much "paperwork" in the process of being an illegal faction so we do not want to add more. We're trying to remove it where not necessary and only have it where necessary. [Suggestion] — "Feedback and active conversation during official application process, seems to be a bit lagging." [Suggestion] — "Give feedback on applications, be more proactive in rewarding factions and unofficial factions with opportunites to prove themselves after putting in effort for a prolonged period of time. If you deny an official application and you're asked to clarify, at least dignify people with a response. When certain groups get more than others after a very short period of time, it starts to suggest favouritism's at play. Giving supplier roles to senior admins and allowing management members to retain theirs when they're either not active or were usurped in their faction makes absolutely no sense. That kind of thing really needs to change as it does nothing but damage the illegal scene when there's candidates out there that have put in the IC legwork to justify such a position." [Suggestion] — "Support freelancers" [Suggestion] — "Provide more assistance when asked a little more hand holding for new leaders in the community. It will pay greatly in the future." [Suggestion] — "As above, response times on schemes and such. IFM are quick to come back on any queries and the like. Not really an IFM issue, however, breakin requests very rarely get answered. I believe there's been talks of submitting a thread to get a breakin checked beforehand, which may speed things up, but I think the ability to schedule in a breakin with a specific admin would save everyone a lot of time." PART 3 - THE RESPONSE FROM IFM There is a lot of feedback that we received, and obviously not all of it has been able to be included in this thread. We did however read every response. I think both ourselves and the illegal community is tired of saying things and action not actually being done, or it all bark and no bite to actually get a move on with things. What I can say, is that we agree with a lot of the concerns that have been raised up. It is impossible to make everyone happy and we continue to try and expand the team, get new opinions and get new people to give fresh outlooks on the community. We really appreciate the feedback of players that are excessively knowledgeable, and not within staff. We do not think that staff suddenly makes anyone's opinion more valid than the person next to them. Some of the best feedback we get are from players that are experienced within the scene with no interest in being staff of it. We have posted an IFM Noticeboard update with all the changes that we have made, with more to follow in the near future. Thank you to everyone who gave their feedback, please feel free to send me a forum DM if you'd like to discuss anything further or provide specific feedback to a problem, or just reply to the thread. Illegal Faction Management is going to focus more on action than posting novels of promise of change as well as making more use of the Illegal Faction Public Discord. We have been slacking on transparency but we try and post as much as we can within this Discord to keep everyone aware of what's going on. NOTICEBOARD UPDATE (CLICK) 10 2 1 Link to comment
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