Reduce Legal Paychecks

[Smilesville]

3 minutes ago, Westen said:

Personally I don't agree with this point. If I'm spending the time to be on duty as opposed to doing something else to earn money (a faction is a job after all) then I should be fairly compensated. 

I'm not sure that's the right way to look at it; the departments are just another avenue of roleplay.

 

You, as a player, are not expending any more effort to be a part of them as you would any other faction - the only difference is that it happens to be part of the government (and if the PD is a chore for you, might I suggest another career path.)

 

Your character is not joining a career that is especially well paid in America - in fact, the pay for police officers and other occupations we simulate (skilled, blue-collar work) are roughly on par with one another.

 

If these points are true, then why should the pay be exorbitant compared to other businesses and factions? If the RP in the faction is not worth joining, then again, perhaps you should reconsider your choice - but this does not constitute paychecks that bleed over into providing OOC incentive to join the police force.

 

I'm much more amenable to the suggestion put forth by Keane to have a monthly check when one meets the minimum required duty time, rather than hourly checks.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, milk said:

PD Academy graduates don’t receive any paycheck until inducted last I checked

Terrible idea. Having regular players receive $100 an hour for playing whilst businesses charge $300 entry fees, and upwards of $150 for a single drink, as well as having road taxes to pay is an awful idea. A simple $50,000 car on the server would require 25 hours of $100 pay checks per week alone. All this suggestion would do is push players to grind script jobs more. 

If we wanna only have the immersion then why even RP any money at all? Let all be free.

 

To gain funds for a month Il make a one example. Using this :

 

Rent a truck for 2 hours for 1000$ , earn 15.000$ with mining. Have 25x300$ club entrance and 75x100$ drink. Or just make a single fishing trip and be set for a night.

[milk]

2 hours ago, Tr1bal said:

If we wanna only have the immersion then why even RP any money at all? Let all be free.

 

To gain funds for a month Il make a one example. Using this :

 

Rent a truck for 2 hours for 1000$ , earn 15.000$ with mining. Have 25x300$ club entrance and 75x100$ drink. Or just make a single fishing trip and be set for a night.

Until the construction and supplying of businesses are free, nobody is going to “let all be free.” And that’s probably not happening any time soon.

 

2 hours ago, Smilesville said:

You, as a player, are not expending any more effort to be a part of them as you would any other faction - the only difference is that it happens to be part of the government.

All legal factions most definitely do require the “player” expenditure of effort to be a part of - More than the average player is willing to give, in most cases. We have a ton of background paperwork to do that nobody outside of PD ever sees. There’s no real roleplay aspect towards doing that paperwork, except the IC reprimand you’d get for failing to complete your duties. You also have to OOCly dedicate time to go to specific training classes for specific IC career paths (So much so that I’ve seen people take days off work for specific trainings so as to not have to wait 1-2 months for the next opportunity.) And someone has to write all this material for all of PD to read and understand. That’s more of your OOC time spent. And forget about it if you want to join specific divisions within the department. Some bring with them waves upon waves of paperwork, others monthly training sessions.

 

Saying that “you’re not putting any more effort to be a part of PD as you would any other faction” is plain and simply just a sore oversight of what actually goes into being in the police department ingame.

[Smilesville]

19 minutes ago, milk said:

All legal factions most definitely do require the “player” expenditure of effort to be a part of - More than the average player is willing to give, in most cases. We have a ton of background paperwork to do that nobody outside of PD ever sees. There’s no real roleplay aspect towards doing that paperwork, except the IC reprimand you’d get for failing to complete your duties. You also have to OOCly dedicate time to go to specific training classes for specific IC career paths (So much so that I’ve seen people take days off work for specific trainings so as to not have to wait 1-2 months for the next opportunity.)

Is it the fault of the entirety of the player base that the police department is mired in pedantic nonsense that everyone would rather skip over? My point is that for every form you have to fill out for the police department, there is an application to fill out with the government to run a business. Moreover, police officers are not (so far as I am aware) forced to pay for absurd amounts of licensing with cash that they may very well not have. That means spending even more time in-game doing truly pedantic things just to make the RP concept you really want to pursue viable. There is no business that you can build from the ground up for $200,000.

Still, I would refer you to my previous observation regarding the PD and its many layers of bureaucracy: if the PD is an OOC hassle, quit and find something you enjoy doing. This is the only means by which you can protest systems you dislike in the department if suggestions themselves are ineffective.

 

My point overall, however, is that none of this justifies the absurdly large paychecks these organizations receive.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Smilesville

[Hollywood]

5 hours ago, Franelli said:

Both the paycheck sum should be reduced to a more reasonable amount and the money paid every hour should highly depend on the amount of time the character has spent on duty.

 

I personally believe that X time out of an hour should be required to be spent on duty in order to receive faction pay in FD and LSPD. Otherwise, normal job pay/hourly income should suffice.

 

 

5 hours ago, Smilesville said:

specifically, they collect exorbitant taxes without having to spend them on any sort of upkeep

 

I personally detest this dynamic and hope some sort of change is implemented in the future. 

 

I've played on servers where faction pay was handled weekly for FD,  LSPD and the public transit/cab company. GOV would be responsible for assigning a weekly budget and dispersing the pay to the appropriate leadership. 

 

I'm not suggesting this exactly, although it could work, but some kind of budget for factions could be a solution. Leadership could award pay based on activity and duty, as well as bonuses. There would of course need to be some kind of internal discussion in each faction to set something like that up.

 

I really do hope that legal factions get restricted in some regard in the future. Factions should have to worry about keeping their fleet of vehicles serviced and should be afraid of losing vehicles if they don't. Factions with gear in their lockers should have to worry about keeping the supplies stocked. 

 

The potential for LSPD to have a very bad week (lots of shootings perhaps) and be running low on service weapons should be a real possibility, and so on. 

[Robyn]

Everytime I've asked about this I was told it's an IC budgeting thing by City Gov.

[milk]

59 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

 My point is that for every form you have to fill out for the police department, there is an application to fill out with the government to run a business.

I believe you’re genuinely unaware of how many different forms of paperwork there are for members of the police department to do.

1 hour ago, Smilesville said:

There is no business that you can build from the ground up for $200,000.

This is an IC issue. Opening businesses is not cheap even in real life. I myself own a business ingame on a non-PD character. I raised funds for that ICly with a friend who agreed to be business partners and both contributed $120,000 towards our $240,000 business. It’s doable, just not realistically doable for every average joe to create his dream business - as it should be. 

 

1 hour ago, Smilesville said:

Still, I would refer you to my previous observation regarding the PD and its many layers of bureaucracy: if the PD is an OOC hassle, quit and find something you enjoy doing. This is the only means by which you can protest systems you dislike in the department if suggestions themselves are ineffective.

The reason we have so many people that stick around for it is because we do not mind doing it. We value the roleplay experience from being in PD, the OOC friendships that are acquired and camaraderie that happens on the daily enough to make doing the paperwork worth it - Your statement of “if it’s too much ooc hassle, quit and find something you enjoy.” Is quite a silly one, at that. The only thing that makes something “too much hassle” is when the effort involved in being a part of something circumvents the enjoyment you receive from being in it.

 

From what I have seen myself, having been in PD for a couple of months now, the majority of players in PD don’t generally use their money to acquire unrealistic things. The majority of players I know ICly live in $190k-$240k houses, drive relatively normal cars (This one I’ve seen addressed OOCly to a couple of members in regards to them driving unrealistic cars for their held rank.) and most people in PD generally tend to stick to whatever their rank would generally be able to afford, with some people deviating from that with different IC Circumstances, of course. Worst case scenario, I’d say making it on-duty paychecks only. The amount is fine, we don’t have a pressing issue of “unrealistically roleplayed rich cops.” Until that is a genuine issue, I don’t see a reason to lower it. From what I have seen, nobody is abusing their wealth in a poor rp fashion.

[Topinambour]

11 minutes ago, milk said:

The reason we have so many people that stick around for it is because we do not mind doing it.

 

Yes, but your previous argument was along the lines of "Yes but since we have to do so much boring OOC shit filling forms, we deserve some IC reward". I think it's where Smilesville was getting at: the fact that some people are unhealthily obsessed by forms and believe having everyone fill them 24/7 means "heavy RP" isn't really a good reason to give some people highly inflated paychecks. 

Edited December 7, 2018 by Topinambour

[Centauri]

This is a touchy subject that pops up once in a while, still not sure myself why this hasn't been fixed yet. A while back (when Kota was still around) we had a change in the system, you would only receive a paycheck for every 1 hour spent on duty. For example, you could spent 40 minutes on duty and 20 minutes off, you wouldn't get a paycheck, only when you go on duty once again for 20 minutes. Now this had issues which is why it has been reverted. If you're going about forcing people to be on duty for xx amount of hours you're just going to try and create robocops. Let's be real here, most people think money is something important in RP and what is their way to get money? To be on duty, how do normal players get their money? By grinding. Sounds relatable.  

 

It has been suggested in this post but we should rather aim for a base payment for legal factions, may this be $800 like a normal civilian or $1000 as legal factions tend to do work outside the game to maintain the faction (PD/FD's paperwork, Weazel news' articles, faction page update) and whenever a person has been on duty an xx amount of minutes during the hour, he should get a bonus upon the regular paycheck.

[Triple Seven]

Just pay the regular 600 and when you're on duty the minutes are counted, once you reach 60 you get a single extra PD/FD paycheck in a lower amount than currently? I don't see the idea of paychecks always being higher as long as you're employed but not working.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Triple Seven