When are Staff Reports and Faction Reports going to be made public? It's about time

[Wuhtah]

5 minutes ago, ZaE said:

Word spreads around this community extremely fast. 

 

Very true, I guess you guys leave me out of the loop on purpose.

 

5 minutes ago, pateuvasiliu said:

But if a Staff makes a mistake that should get the removed ( but won't, because of backstage shenanigans ) I want the whole forum to know/see it, because if they don't, then you could theoretically have a Nazi as staff and no one would ever know.

Transparency is critical.

 

I 100% agree that transparency is critical. I have always preached this.

 

If you believe in your whole heart, that the staff management that we have now on this server - is covering up for someone or is corrupt - PLEASE take it to Nervous and management themselves with the proof that you have.

 

Most of the staff reports come from forum reports, so if a player sees an administrator do a horrible decision on the forum report - then it can be reported by the player who is getting screwed over. I don't see any reason why you can't reach out to the player to ask for the conclusion either.

 

Also, I do believe putting on the forum report itself if anything was reverted is a good step in the right direction in terms of compromise. Do we have any feedback on that comment? 

 

4 minutes ago, Kweng said:

he got a point the man got a point

 

I understand that you're giving moral support, but you're also not giving anything to the thread - please, if you have something to add, definitely add it as I'd like to listen to what everyone has to say. If not, I'm sure a reaction to their post would suffice. 

 

2 minutes ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

Indeed. People in positions of (significant) power are usually held to a higher standard, when they fuck up and this is precisely why the staff reports should be visible to the public. 

 

Let me talk with Staff Management & Frezemis to get the exact reasons why staff reports aren't open to the public and I'll get back to you guys.

[sparky]

10 minutes ago, Wuhtah said:

 

 

Also, I do believe putting on the forum report itself if anything was reverted is a good step in the right direction in terms of compromise. Do we have any feedback on that comment? 

 

On every staff update we should have a section for staff report outcomes,

 

"Wuhtuh - warned for calling player 'stinky'"

[ZaE]

11 minutes ago, sparkz said:

On every staff update we should have a section for staff report outcomes,

 

"Wuhtuh - warned for calling player 'stinky'"

Disagree, because that's just a wall of shame people are gonna go to even for the smallest things. I'm more worried about the huge scenes and situations that people report and admins getting away with that, if a staff member makes a common mistake I don't want them shamed on a wall like a token, if the staff reports are visible and that's normal there's no reason to have some special section to shame the admins, because that seems more personal in my opinion to just showing the staff reports (unless doxing information is  being shown or sensitive information people don't want to be shared). And also those staff updates can be tampered since they are made by staff at the end of the day (not calling out or saying people handling staff updates are bias, I'm just saying it could lead to people starting shit and saying that). Being able to see PLAYER POSTED staff reports on staff and not LISTED punishments on STAFF POSTED threads is much better.

 

TDLR; Having all the outcomes on every staff update seems too personal and picked out, having the staff reports visible is easy, efficient and simple and makes it seem less personal (attacking staff) and more entirely normal. Staff updates are posted by staff, player reports are posted by players... feels more trust worthy that way.

Edited January 8, 2023 by ZaE

[Zach..]

On a separate game I play on there's a place where all admin strikes are listed publicly. They list what the admin did that was against the rules/policy. Everyone can see it. It's a fair system. Should be implemented here.

[Frezemis]

1 hour ago, pateuvasiliu said:

I've been told that the Staff team is NOT taking action on Staff Reports because they don't want new Staff to leave. I also heard that there's been Staff Reports up for 9 months, which is utterly unacceptable. What gives?

The statement is half false half true. There are some staff reports sitting but we aren’t speaking the full truth here, just because you heard doesn’t mean it’s always true. With the change of Staff Management lead it created a void for some reports to be lost as they did not have the right people in the report and some reports were sent only to the admins that are retired now. Climbing out of a hole is a lot harder when you didn’t dig it, so to say.

 

When you file a complaint with a Human Resources department do you get all the details? No, you get the outcome of it. Staff reports on all communities that I’ve been in have remained private because some reports require the privacy and some are anonymous. 
 

I’ll have to read more into this today.

[Wuhtah]

After speaking with staff management - 

 

The reasoning of why staff reports will not be shown is because our names are all over the forums, the game, etc. As a player - no one is going to remember that you got punished once for metagame or powergame unless  you are a problematic player. No one bashes you. No one holds shit against you. If they do, it's very rarely and it's from a certain clique you maybe were once apart of or grown enemies towards, which in itself, is immature and pathetic. It's a game.

 

For administrators, we are constantly under scrutiny as most of you have no problems telling us how to do our job, complain about how we do it, or even staff report us for not doing it up to your standards. Your standards, frankly, are not the server standards most of the time. 

 

Staff reports are between the staff member being reported, the player reporting, the staff management administrative side, and management. Staff Management has improved greatly over this last month as Zani took head of admins, and I believe he is a damn good one thus far. Boots has been right next to him helping him, and she is obviously trustworthy within the staff team as she's held Head of Mapping this entire time. I have not once ever seen anyone complain about these two, and it shows that these two are in damn good positions. 

 

They don't just conclude the report of saying "we agree with how the admin handled it." They give you paragraphs of why they do agree and how they will proceed moving forward. Just how support side of staff management has improved with denial reasonings, they have improved with staff reports. 

 

To counter the debunk of "I heard some staff reports have been waiting 9 months" - I've asked, and was answered this was not true. Either they have old staff management in there that hasn't been forwarded to the new staff management, or Frezemis simply forgot. I recommend adding Zani and Boots into the forum PM to get things handled quicker. 

 

80% of the staff reports that come in that they have to wade through are absolutely the most pettiest reports I have seen. A TA could handle it the same way without any proper training and get the same conclusion as the handling administrator who has had months of training - it's that apparent with it. 

 

Staff management was chosen by Management & Nervous themselves. If you have an issue with how they handle things, send it up the line and staff report them. As of now, and future, staff reports will remain hidden as there is no reason to put an administrator on blast. To counter arguments "well players are put on blast" - they aren't. They are only on blast because they specifically either broke the rules or they didn't. A staff report is determining if an administrator put the wrong punishment or not. 80% of the time, the administrator is in the right. And this upsets the player who is staff reporting even more because they just can't understand what they did was wrong even if it was explained by the original administrator as well as staff management. To those players - there's nothing we can do to help them. If they can't see their flaws, then they have some growing up to do and some self reflection to make. The other 20% of the time, the administrator could have handled it a bit better in ways of words or getting more proper evidence and in the end - would usually be the reported parties' fault because they didn't give it all to begin with. If it's a constant occurrence with an administrator, they are warned. If it keeps happening, they are removed. Half of you guys don't check the staff lists to see this being done and it shows.

 

While I understand transparency is key, this is asking for too much and you guys aren't getting the big picture. You guys speak of witch hunts for random players - but there is a huge playerbase, even if it does not show all the time, of thousands of different people on at all different times. There is an admin team of 40-60 people, most names are WELL known. If one makes a mistake, so much toxicity and hate will go towards them and that witch hunt will make them resign and that is something we will not let happen. Staff management protects the staff team, yes, but we also make sure those who are indeed bias/giving bad punishments are spoken to, warned, or removed appropriately. 

 

If you have talks about someone being corrupted/bias - it makes me feel that you didn't have the evidence to show it which is why nothing came out of it. 

 

Again, just because you have a staff report, does not make you entitled to be in the right. It entitles you to get a second opinion from 2-3 different administrators to let you know if you are in the wrong or the right. 

 

Will be locking this for now until Management can read up and add anything else to it. 

[Zani]

Hello everyone,

 

I have not gone through every reply to this thread as I won't be able to quote/respond to every single post. I will try to make this as short as possible so it's easier to read. The first thing that I have noticed is that people on this thread claim things they have 'heard.' That is not how academic discussions are held and is not the proper method of discourse for when you attempt to suggest change. Because a staff report does not conclude in your favor does not mean that there is anything suspicious going on. If you make the claim that those who handle staff reports are involved in suspicious behavior to protect other admins, you are, by extension, effectively claiming that Management turns a blind eye to such things. If I were to do something shady, Frezemis (Head of Staff) would pick up on it and Management would be on my behind for it. In fact, there's no doubt I'd be instantly terminated as those in Staff Management collectively are held to such a degree where fairness of the applicability of the server rules and administration are paramount.

 

In this passage, I will go into a little of what goes into a staff report. Firstly, staff reports vary in their type. Sometimes, they're reports, but other times, they're appeals to actions because a player disagrees with the outcome, not necessarily blaming an administrator on their conduct. From my experience, most seem to be the latter. When a staff report is taken into consideration, the initial report/appeal is reviewed. If there is any questionable conduct or decisions made, we reach out to the handling administrator. The method of which we may approach an administrator can vary depending on what is needed. Every single piece of information relevant to the investigation is placed into the appropriate investigatory piece for all of Management and relevant staff management personnel to see for effective log-keeping purposes. Then, we eventually finalize our decision and relay the conclusion back to the appellant party. If staff reports were public, everyone would be able to see a lot of sensitive information. Often times, player reports (situations which staff reports/appeals derive from) are deliberated on by other admins. Seeing private discord logs of admin discussions (and sometimes to the point of debate) is not beneficial for a staff report. Public staff reports also cause a possibility for someone to be targeted. While I am not accusing any administrator of doing so, I am simply pointing out that it breaches a level of trust between player and staff management. The last point I'll mention is that, if staff reports were public, this gives the admin in question time to cover up or walk-back things on the down-low, which would hamper our efforts in combatting troublesome behavior.

 

There are other things which I can bring up, but this is enough to get the point across. It is highly inaccurate to claim that staff reports are not checked. Sometimes, things have to be delayed, which is inevitable, but do not try to create a narrative where that is the norm. For any more information regarding this concern, I refer you back to Frezemis's post, one above this one. To reiterate, the fact of the matter is that, sometimes, people who do not have their staff appeal concluded in their favor may end up relaying that the system is corrupt or shady, solely because they did not get their way. I hope that this can clear up any concerns anyone strolling by on this thread may have.

 

Thank you.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Zani