IC Language script

[knppel]

This is a bad idea.

 

 

All the theoretic arguments about language knowledge in the op are totally in vain, as a significant amount of players first of all expects a tactical advantage from using a foreign language, such as being able to communicate a planned course of action with others nearby not being aware ic, or, just as common, want to use non-english to threaten and slander people verbally without being called out for it.

 

Infront of this context, there's no "reasonable" amount of languages a character can know as 3rd parties always will complain about knowledge if it touches their rp.

Spanish for instance is incredibly wide spread in the southern US, not just since yesterday.

Spanish is tought in schools, also to non-latins.

According to studies, in California a whopping 11% of the population irl are able to only communicate in english.

 

Your typical scenario where people complain about others knowing languages?

A latin (M) talking how he's gonna kill everybody around after trolling infront of a club, and being salty ooc when he's told (in spanish) to shut the fuck up.

Thanks but no thanks.

[i dont wanna od in LA]

no

[eTaylor]

What if I just do /me speaks Russian but talk to my friend over Skype? 

[Triple Seven]

Hell no, stop stooping to a low standard and suggesting horrible light rp stuff to prevent punishment for breaking rules

[Mistery14]

4 hours ago, knppel said:

This is a bad idea.

 

 

All the theoretic arguments about language knowledge in the op are totally in vain, as a significant amount of players first of all expects a tactical advantage from using a foreign language, such as being able to communicate a planned course of action with others nearby not being aware ic, or, just as common, want to use non-english to threaten and slander people verbally without being called out for it.

 

Infront of this context, there's no "reasonable" amount of languages a character can know as 3rd parties always will complain about knowledge if it touches their rp.

Spanish for instance is incredibly wide spread in the southern US, not just since yesterday.

Spanish is tought in schools, also to non-latins.

According to studies, in California a whopping 11% of the population irl are able to only communicate in english.

 

Your typical scenario where people complain about others knowing languages?

A latin (M) talking how he's gonna kill everybody around after trolling infront of a club, and being salty ooc when he's told (in spanish) to shut the fuck up.

Thanks but no thanks.

 

Thanks for your reply, I appreciate that you took the time to comment.

 

1. The tactical advantage you speak of when communicating in a different language makes sense to have. Your character should not be able to know what's coming to them if it's being spoken about in a language your character doesn't know, and your character's IC behavior is inevitably going to change once you gain that knowledge OOC if you're able to read that text whether you like it or not, because it's natural to have self-preservation and not want your character to die.

 

Similarly, let's say two Russians hold up a 24/7 store, are they going to speak English to each other? Maybe, maybe not. But if they both do speak Russian and the clerk happens to not know Russian, why should they not use that tactical advantage to make sure both the character and the player doesn't gain IC or OOC knowledge? It'd show up as normal text to the both of them, the clerk will just see: "[Player] is speaking Russian." The character will not know what they're saying, and the OOC player will not be able to gather that IC information to use it IC nor OOC.

 

If I was them, I'd much rather have to deal with this than having the same clerk show up weeks later to shoot me in the back only to then play deaf ear when questioned about how they gathered X information that they should have otherwise never gathered. It's a huge mess for players to pinpoint where the language metagaming is coming from and provide reliable proof, especially if things snowball over time.

 

2. I see this as a non-issue, if Spanish is a wide-spread language in the US, then characters with the knowledge of the Spanish language can simply have that language be known by their character, which will render them able to read the text if /spa is used, and those who do not know the language IC will not be able to understand it IC. Language should not be restricted to a group, a faction, or whatever. It should be used by anyone who feels like it would make sense for their characters to have learned it.

 

3. This is a little specific, but I think I get it. In either cases, why would anyone expose their plans to do a mass shooting especially around other potential Spanish speakers if the US is a place where there are a lot of Spanish speakers like you said? I mean I don't know why our (M) would get salty over something that's likely to happen.

 

Good points, I hope it clears up things that I might not have mentioned.

 

4 hours ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

no

 

Sure, valid opinion.

 

4 hours ago, eTaylor said:

What if I just do /me speaks Russian but talk to my friend over Skype? 

 

Then it is still metagaming by definition, therefore it is a rule break, and is a thing that people already do. This suggestion does not claim to fix third-party voice chat metagaming.

 

3 hours ago, Triple Seven said:

Hell no, stop stooping to a low standard and suggesting horrible light rp stuff to prevent punishment for breaking rules

 

Hey, good concern. But what exactly constitutes as "Low Standard" and "Horrible Light RP" stuff in this in your opinion?

 

I don't know if it's exactly low standards. Low standard would be allowing/enabling people to be taking information they're not supposed to know for their own advantage.

 

If a language command is a "Light-RP" mechanic for some reason, why are things such as weapon scrolling, and fist-fighting without any RP, /rob and /arob not only a thing but encouraged if Light-RP mechanics should be strictly out of the question for GTA World? Commands are a tool for the RP people create around them, not a defining factor of RP. This is exactly it, a tool.

 

At the end of the day, I get that language can be understood through other similar languages like Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, French, and that this would not reflect real life - But does everything in GTA World needs to be grounded as close as it possibly can to real life? I doubt it. This is a game mechanic to make it harder for people to metagame information they should not get both IC and OOC, and a way to make it easier for same-language speakers to communicate with one another in said language in different contexts without having to fear for metagame when they should not have to worry about it.

 

One of the main reasons people talk in other languages even if they know English in a private conversation is for other people around them to have no, or little understanding of what they're saying because it is convenient - This is the exact aim of the suggestion.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Mistery14

[Triple Seven]

12 minutes ago, Mistery14 said:

Hey, good concern. [1] But what exactly constitutes as "Low Standard" and [2] "Horrible Light RP" stuff in this in your opinion?

 

[1] Shielding things off through scripts because of distrust towards players and their ability to follow simple, basic rules like metagaming.

[2] This suggestion.

 

12 minutes ago, Mistery14 said:

I don't know if it's exactly low standards. Low standard would be allowing/enabling people to be taking information they're not supposed to know for their own advantage.

 

No, this allows a low RP standard, through a limiting script. Lowering player enjoyment because they're suddenly only seeing "iuoasnuicvniusbviubisubvuib"(exaggerated example) instead of "[Italian] Your mom!" (which can make a player laugh or understand what happens while their character doesn't understand a word of it and doesn't act on it, completely harmless)

 

12 minutes ago, Mistery14 said:

If a language command is a "Light-RP" mechanic for some reason, why are things such as weapon scrolling, and fist-fighting without any RP, /rob and /arob not only a thing but encouraged if Light-RP mechanics should be strictly out of the question for GTA World? Commands are a tool for the RP people create around them, not a defining factor of RP. This is exactly it, a tool.

 

Who says I agree with those examples? Weapon scrolling (of light weapons if I interpreted you correctly) is a pure DM enabling rule that is in place in my opinion. Robbery commands? Laughable that they're even "needed". The robbery commands are only in place because of the absolutely atrocious behavior or many robbers (and their victims as a result) and as we can see in many examples all throughout the reports section, it's used wrong still. AND the rule around robberies isn't new anymore, but players get away with saying they didn't know there's "new" robbery rules.

 

12 minutes ago, Mistery14 said:

At the end of the day, I get that language can be understood through other similar languages like Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, French, and that this would not reflect real life - But does everything in GTA World needs to be grounded as close as it possibly can to real life? I doubt it.

 

In my opinion? Where possible: yes, but I do understand that in terms of languages this is hard if not impossible. However, this is not the issue, the issue is metagaming. And if your character is worried someone might catch specific words or your conversation, you're not entertaining the idea of having that conversation in public (hurdur, dumb criminal, yeah sure, deal with the consequences too then)

 

21 minutes ago, Mistery14 said:

This is a game mechanic to make it harder for people to metagame information they should not get both IC and OOC

 

Exactly, and that is lowering the expected standard of players and reducing the ability for players to have insight in the storytelling of their character's development.

 

21 minutes ago, Mistery14 said:

and a way to make it easier for same-language speakers to communicate with one another in said language in different contexts without having to fear for metagame when they should not have to worry about it.

 

In a community that's serious about roleplay, we don't have to worry about metagaming.

 

21 minutes ago, Mistery14 said:

One of the main reasons people talk in other languages even if they know English in a private conversation is for other people around them to have no, or little understanding of what they're saying because it is convenient - This is the exact aim of the suggestion.

 

I have more than covered my stance towards this in my previous responses.

[Chaishi]

Add this one in.

 

But not in form of covering the entire text with a /me, instead, go for the [Spanish] tag in front of the text. I'm too lazy to put that in myself so when I do /lang if it automatically adds the tag in front just like how /autolow does with all the emotes, I'd appreciate this addition and believe most people would welcome it.

 

Otherwise it doesn't make sense. People are able to pick up words and understand intentions from speech patterns and their knowledge of the language.

[Valkyria]

This has been suggested.

This has been denied.

Many times.

At a Management & Nervous level.