feeling totally out of place as an average joe/criminal character

[Barbary]

Come on guys, it makes perfect sense that a bougie cafe selling fine wine and caviar is sitting right in the middle of South-Central.

 

In all seriousness, I agree with OP, but this seems to be indicative of a greater issue on the server. As others have mentioned, the lack of working class businesses seems reflective of the lack of working class characters. A lot of legal RPers try to RP the upper class (The kind that spends most of their days driving around in nice cars, clubbing and running their own higher scale businesses) and a lot of illegal RPers seem to think that there's no such thing as a gangbanger with a legal side-hustle.

 

We're only going to see RP scenes for blue collar or working middle class characters if those characters exist in bulk.

[Streetsy]

4 hours ago, Vassilios said:

I used to own a small goth dive bar literally twenty feet from Mission Row. Yet I always had people coming over from God knows where to cause trouble. Minors getting mad they're not getting alcohol, drunk people trying to start fights, one dude tried boarding the outside of the business up because he got mad for whatever reason, people trying to extort you for whatever reason.

 

It just put me off owning a business because realistically I chose this place for "protection" since LSPD was 5 seconds away and my character wouldn't have money to pay for continuous security/taxes.

 

This wasn't only my business too. I've seen people try to extort businesses in front of all the people, criminals (I won't say faction names) coming in groups and turning the experience for everyone sour and the list goes on.

 

4 hours ago, Gallagher said:

@Wuhtah the replies of some business owners indicates that perhaps more needs to be done to protect them from unrealistic harassment/crime. see above

 

4 hours ago, Jeroen said:

This is very similar to what I've seen people in the same-ish places go through, and it's no surprise that other business owners had the same issue.

Yep this goes back to my original point. I think there would be more middle-class places if the mindset of both parties was different. It does become a hassle to have to deal with issues day in, day out. Trolls causing issues for no reason, skirting the line between breaking rules and not. They don’t necessarily break them, hence they don’t get punished. I’ve seen plenty of times where people go into establishments and you can tell they  are obviously looking for trouble with little to no reason. The once in a while issues? No problem. EVERY time you open? It gets very bothersome. 
 

I live for a good dive bar. I just hate seeing them open and inevitably someone says something about someone else’s mother for no reason and a Wild West shootout happens. Not once, but every opening. Hell even a high-end art gallery isn’t safe, so the ritzy doesn’t always help. Happened just yesterday. Two guys who would NEVER realistically walk through those front doors, came in to just harass the patrons. They were clearly from the hood. Examines, clothing, vernacular. They wouldn’t have ever driven over there and walked in. It’s highly doubtful. It was clearly meant to troll and cause trouble since there wasn’t much else to do at that time. It gets old. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Streetsy

[Triple Seven]

In an ideal world we'd have enough players to cater to all types of bars etc. We don't and we never will. We used to have these types of businesses, people got bored of running them and moved on. The server has been going for almost 5 years, without a reset of the economy, which will never happen, I don't see the popularity of these places being run changing, unless if you realize the issue you can be the change you want to see.

 

Otherwise;

 

I think it wouldn't be too hard to set up some server owned diners etc. Those could be roleplay hubs. Obviously that shouldn't lead to illegal factions "claiming" locations/establishments as that should still be places where they request an establishment for themselves. Of course they could have a presence there to link up with potential new members and contacts.

[TonyMontana12]

22 hours ago, Straw said:

Don't worry, I'll fix everything when I open my Southern themed bar-diner, just give me 120000 months till apps open and if I get accepted or I'll have to wait 12000 months to re-apply again. 

Their open right now, btw 

[Wuhtah]

5 hours ago, Gallagher said:

@Wuhtah the replies of some business owners indicates that perhaps more needs to be done to protect them from unrealistic harassment/crime. see above

 

Thank you for the mention! I will read above and check it all out and make some notes.

 

Appreciate you guys for the feedback!

[TonyMontana12]

6 minutes ago, Wuhtah said:

 

Thank you for the mention! I will read above and check it all out and make some notes.

 

Appreciate you guys for the feedback!

I think possibly to raise business wage OR decrease it, but make it static... would increase the number of people also, Nobody likes to be forced into roleplay, the best roleplay is natural, maybe a feature where you have to do so many shifts per week to keep your static pay - I'm actually going to post this in the suggestions session instead with a deep approach to it.

[Deeclassify]

If you're a criminal you need a core group you rp with, street gang, DTO, crew, whatever. Good criminal rpers don't even engage with these civilian rpers imo.

Maybe I'm out of touch since I haven't done any street rp since september, but you basically only need your criminal comrades.

Along with making rp with other criminals not in your group, usually via drugs. All you need as a criminal is other criminals, forget the rest. 

It's probably realistic that you'd feel out of place, it's not your characters scene, just like a civilian would 100% feel out of place on a block. Keep it grimey ese. 

[Angel]

Hey! ✌️
Themed business existed when I first joined the server, and to this point themed cafes exist in todays America, and in the server, there of course exist themed cafes too, an example of this is the Catgirl Cafe at Hawick, turned into a Princess Cafe from the last time I visited, a Javascript Bubble Tea Cafe at Rockford, a cafe front ran by Illegal Factions at El Burro, Cool Beans Cafes at San Andreas Blvd, Sugar Daddies Cafe at Mission Row, the Greenhouse theme Cafe Redemption at Pillbox the big one, Cafe Italia which was a Indoor/Outdoor Italian themed cafe at Pillbox/Mission Row, to this Garden Themed Ground and Pound Cafe at Mission Row. It is advertised as it is said on the tin can. You can’t label it any other way, just as you would take a can of soup from the shelf and ask why isn’t it a can of baked beans.😁

Some of the read post, I’d like to put my opinion across is that; as a player, each need to evolve in their role-play situations, and to primarily make sure that yourself are enjoying your time in the server, and the services and role-play that you provide; an example being a business, bar, nightclub etc etc also takes into effect and consideration that other players are having fun.

Not every role player wants to handle and deal with negative role-play that impacts them, to point where it’s draining your very soul, kudos on you if you like that act to yourself.

As a player unless disclosed to us, we don't know where players character are from or what part of the city they come from and what they go through on the daily. Sometimes it is simply the CURIOSITY, uniqueness and promotional aspects that attracts players  to visit business, if you don’t like what you see or you don’t like what is being advertised then simply just don’t go and find role-play opportunities else where. At the end of the day, the community caters for players worldwide, it’s part of enjoyment, it’s a game and it is what makes others happy whilst keeping inline with aspects of gameplay + pseudos + realism and server rules.

If a player feels out of place on that character, then once again, maybe visit it on another character that may feel appropriate for you to do so. No business should ever make you feel unwelcome, however that isn’t always the case, it’s just a matter of adapting to the situation and I could say the same should I just visit a cafe front by mistake. I’ve gone to establishments where I was senselessly harassed by other role-players including being power-gamed 😞, robbed by just being at the park because they saw the text chat 😑, buffed up characters asking who the manager is already knowing their intentions 😒, and that itself isn’t as enjoyable. I visit and interact in business to admire players work and further enhance in learning server culture and role-play.

It is understandable that players have recently returned from a hiatus and welcome back to them, and a big thumbs up to what role-play you may be doing, but I feel should you not know the history of a business or establishment or what hell hole and work those players had to go through to achieve their development, then some advice that senseless bashing needs to come to a stop and keep the negativity away from demeaning others work, because you don’t want to be taken to Isengard and help the hobbits or find ridiculous interior, again you always have the option to opt-out into visiting those.

With property management staff part of this topic, and have already stated, concept request does exist, owners contact PM admins before proceeding, which then becomes an extensive work for both the player and the admin; this business interior from the OPs motion and other players opinion about other businesses and interiors not to their liking, thats okay to have that opinion! however it is most likely that property management attended to some of these interiors even during its earlier stages and saw through its phases. I’ve personally have been met with a few denials by PM in the past under their previous management, with one denying introducing a concept and another about relocation.

To point it out, this was opened as a themed cafe on exactly on 21st May 2021, over a year ago, and had been advertised as a garden themed cafe; the place was designed to have a themed concept, it took participants months, investing time learning to furnish, mood-boarding, admin assistantce, money, furniture slots and, ALOT of IC and OOC disagreements with friends, to the point they wanted to break each other’s necks, to eventually being PM Approved completing this place.

TL;DR: Regarding Interiors: You have the option to opt-out. Perspective is everything, the perception and artism of the creator will always be different to that of the audience. If you find it unrealistic, ask around, research about it or report it. 🕊️✌️

[Jolagh]

My only experience was of an alt I created an old man in his fifties, he was a commercial fisherman with a passion for food looking to open a fish and chip shop down at the port to sell his catch.  I found a little pretty run down building but would have been the perfect size for a takeaway spot or a rustic eatery. Firstly the process for requesting a property was pretty bureaucratic. But the kicker was when I got denied for not having enough hours on the character and for the area being not suitable?

 

Firstly total hours on a character does not mean anything. My character is old, he had fifty years of development to come up with his idea of opening a small takeaway. Secondly the area not being suitable? It’s a friggin port!

 

Overall it should be made a lot easier to obtain leases and properties for business. If a business is inactive because of no good reason it should be taken and put back into circulation for those that are active.

[Decker]

1 hour ago, Jolagh said:

Secondly the area not being suitable? It’s a friggin port!

Never been to a fish & chips shop at a port lmfao. I'll be honest, it's kind of reasonable that you got denied.