Allow LEO Admins to handle search warrants

[i dont wanna od in LA]

11 minutes ago, honey. said:

Break-ins have a pretty long delay at the moment regardless however, personally I do not think someone in LSPD should be doing a LSPD search warrant. Unconscious bias exists, and while someone should be trusted to not have bias if they're in an administrative position, it's somewhat of an unfair advantage that one group of factions get an exemption that no other faction would get.

 

For example; if an admin in LSPD is trusted enough to do LSPD breakins, an admin in an illegal faction should be trusted enough to do their faction breakins. However, in comparison, the latter sounds like it has more room for bias because of the construct mindset that LSPD is such a large faction there should be leniency. 

 

There is also the issue of the fact LSPD and LSSD's leadership are not admins, they're not staff members, they are then also put in an awkward position of whether or not they want their own members doing administrative tasks as the "punishment" of any abuse is a gray area between them as faction leaders and staff management.

 

tl;dr there will be admins some people "trust" more than others, if it cannot be applied to all admins and all factions, it should not be applied to any. 

Bias among admins is already a thing and it's very visible. I'd say both legal and illegal admins should be allowed to do breakins as long as there's /stashinfo in the property, otherwise as set forth by rules admins are allowed to make up locations where items are placed, therefore this could lead to abuse. 

[Peak.]

21 minutes ago, Jax said:

That wait time is for everyone, sometimes even reports.

Look to fix the wait time for each avenue of RP, not just LEO.
Choosing to prioritize a fix for one party over another one will only cause more complaints and toxicity.

Aim to fix that wait time for everyone, not just one group.
Once that is fixed, people won't say no.

I'd say that's extended on "why" 

Whats the fix though, more admins?

[Jax]

47 minutes ago, Peak. said:

Whats the fix though, more admins?

I'll try to avoid offending anyone with my response because at any moment, it may be said that I'm criticizing the staff team.
 

No, adding more admins is not the primary "fix."

The folks in charge are the ones who direct admins need to step up.

Some administrators are enormous workhorses who take on every responsibility and handle several problems head-on rather than waiting for assistance or "change" to occur.
 

Some people are not, and after they reach a particular level or position, their administrative responsibilities become less active yet they continue to receive the same credit as the workhorses, or occasionally, though rare occasions, more credit.
(I'm speaking from experience to what I observed as a former administrator.)

As previously when there was less admins than how many are there now.
 

Everyone put in more effort, and the workload was distributed more equally.
Occasionally, staff management will ask workers to handle more reports.
 

But ultimately, they just asked.

Not told them to handle them (speaking from my experience).

I'm not sure how it is now, but in the past, doing nothing or only the barest minimum wasn't punished.

Simply put, staff management isn't that demanding, and staff get cozy with doing bare minimum because of that.
There was rarely any punishment for doing little work.

And that is the root of the issues.
 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Jax

[Trupiano]

Absolutely not as @Jax said: 

 

2 hours ago, Jax said:

Simply put, staff management isn't that demanding, and staff get cozy with doing bare minimum because of that.
There was rarely any punishment for doing little work.

And that is the root of the issues.

 

On top of that, when talking about this issue specifically it just opens the door for wild abuse and frankly I don't trust LEO admins to be impartial. Now, I'm not saying every LEO admin is maliciously but there is definitely a divide between the way LEO players think, what they know and the way criminal RPers think and know.  It leads to constant issues and butting of heads and the idea that people should just make a report afterwards if they feel they've been wronged is frankly bullshit. The RP's already happened, it's kinda hard to go back to RPing when your shits already been raided and reports take 2-3 weeks to even see a response.

[mj2002]

7 hours ago, Rohan. said:

LEO admins can handle the search warrant, they just don't need to be in the same faction.

 

This simple line says it all. You don't handle reports from the faction you're in. 

[Viscaria]

I'm not gonna get too involved in this discussion but there's a couple of things that I would like to touch on briefly.

There's a lot of "LEO admins", "legal admins", "illegal admins" being mentioned as if admins are static to one direction of roleplay, while this is true for some of us, its not the case for us all, a good amount of us have experience in all kinds of different roleplay and actively have both legal and illegal characters. When it comes to the question if LEO's should be able to do search warrants of their own faction, I disagree for two reasons, the first is unconscious bias as @honey. already touched on and it is absolutely a thing, secondly is the risk of potential drama coming from it, maybe the LEO's know that a gun was stashed in the property, but maybe it was hidden extremely well and with all their efforts, they couldn't find it, we can't tell them why as its IC info, people could get mopey about it without knowing how well it was actually hidden - multiple scenarios like this that would become an issue. I'm also in PD's K9 division, would it be a good idea for me to do PD's search warrants?

With all that said, I absolutely don't mind doing search warrants or break ins should I have the time to do so, and I'll also make a conscious effort going forward to start doing more to reduce these wait times where I'm able to.

[Reece?]

I think even if this were to be implemented it would not ultimately fix the issue, the issue at hand being the current wait time for breaking and search warrants, instead of bandaid fixes such as these there should be systems in place to circumvent the need of an admin. Something that allows for players to correctly stash their items in specific locations and if those locations are found then the item is found. It’s a basic idea which can obviously be touched more on in-depth but I do not think this is the thread for that. 

[Xaleya]

3 hours ago, Viscaria said:

I'm not gonna get too involved in this discussion but there's a couple of things that I would like to touch on briefly.

There's a lot of "LEO admins", "legal admins", "illegal admins" being mentioned as if admins are static to one direction of roleplay, while this is true for some of us, its not the case for us all, a good amount of us have experience in all kinds of different roleplay and actively have both legal and illegal characters. When it comes to the question if LEO's should be able to do search warrants of their own faction, I disagree for two reasons, the first is unconscious bias as @honey. already touched on and it is absolutely a thing, secondly is the risk of potential drama coming from it, maybe the LEO's know that a gun was stashed in the property, but maybe it was hidden extremely well and with all their efforts, they couldn't find it, we can't tell them why as its IC info, people could get mopey about it without knowing how well it was actually hidden - multiple scenarios like this that would become an issue. I'm also in PD's K9 division, would it be a good idea for me to do PD's search warrants?

With all that said, I absolutely don't mind doing search warrants or break ins should I have the time to do so, and I'll also make a conscious effort going forward to start doing more to reduce these wait times where I'm able to.

I think breakings should be pre-approved via UCP? So things IC/IG would go smoothly with a pre-defined IG time rather than reporting IG?. I think it's a bit bureaucratic but I don't see any other solution to the issue. So the "approving admin" can free up a bit of time just for it.

For example Admin Honey will approve the LSPD breaking into "Juan Jimenes house", since Juan didn't set up any stashinfo. Honey wrote a small paragraph for other admins incase of he couldn't arrive in time. So another admin can feasibly take the situation in case of honey not being able to.
 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Xaleya

[SaintBatemanofWallStreet]

If admins can't be trusted to do their job objectively, then they shouldn't be admins.

[Rohan.]

The main concern I see here is that people do not like waiting for their search warrants to be accepted, which is a very reasonable thing. The wait time is annoying and I've experienced it myself as well. It is not at all enjoyable and kills the mood in the camp when you have to wait for such a long time just for an admin to show up to do your warrant. As it stands currently, most warrants are executed during the evening or night time. This is the time we have reports coming in non stop, so naturally, the breakins take their sweet time. I'm not putting out an excuse for the wait time, but it is how it is currently. We all try our best to work it out and make sure all breakins and search warrants are handled as quickly as possible.

 

Now, onto a temporary solution, which I know for a fact has always worked. Whenever you're going to execute a search warrant, what I suggest is you can hit up an admin few hours before (via in-game report) and ask for their availability. Most of the times, you'll find an admin whom you can book for your breakin/search warrants at a particular time. People have done it in past and things have went smoothly without the long ass wait times.

 

When it comes to bias, it's best to avoid any situation where the question of bias can arise. We can't know beforehand if a certain admin will be biased or not towards their faction. We just want to avoid the question of bias in the first place, which I do think is fair.